Topic: What to do with "trouble" employee

Today, I was talking with my carpet cleaning vendor. My leasing consultant and I joked with him about a particularly negative apartmentratings.com review that we had recently got, which was complaining about how I rarely ever work onsite (it was funny b/c I never take off, but of course today I was late due to an outside appointment). The vendor then told me that he knew who wrote the bad review - it was a member of our staff! He said that she had told him she wrote a bad review, and told him how she wanted to tell our management co. about how I'm running the place into the ground. Needless to say, I'm furious. But my question is, do you think this is an actionable, fireable offense? What would you do, as a site manager, if you heard that your employee was saying things like this to a vendor?? I'm just sort of in shock at this point.

Absolutely! This kind of behavior is disloyal and counter productive. Forget about it being unprofessional to discuss this with a vendor.

I would not want to be in your position, but get someone above you in pay level involved for assistance.

Thanks Johnny...We've had issues with this employee before, and I'm hoping that HR agrees with me that this is the last straw. Unfortunately, we ended up in a (ridiculous) lawsuit from the last employee we let go, so now the 'higher ups' are very cautious and, I'd say, scared, to terminate again. Since the suit, HR has just recommended to "document everything" but then no further actions are ever taken. It is frustrating, to say the least.

Now the question is, how accurate are the claims made on apartmentratings?

If they are accurate, then the concerns brought up need to be addressed in addition to the personnel action needed.

What are you doing to correct that?

The complaint did have some valid concerns. Most of her complaint is based around the fact that she is not in control - I am. So, she sees every decision I make as wrong since I don't do it the way she would. She complains to our RM that I don't listen to her and do what she tells me I should to solve a problem. Because most properties run that way, right - the Manager works under the direction of the cleaner??

Sorry..getting petty here. She just rubs me the wrong way. I have re-read the reviews, and have seen that there are areas where I've gotten more relaxed in rule enforcement, and need to step up my corrections. During the insanity of the winter, my main concern was getting rid of the snow and dealing with the constant snow removal complaints, and I let some of the smaller stuff slide when it came to residents bending rules.

I always welcome feedback on my job performance - you can't get better unless you see where you need to improve. So, I did take the reviews as a learning opportunity for myself (before I knew who wrote them)

It is good that you recognize the validity of the issues raised, but how it was handled by the employee was uncalled for, unprofessional, and disloyal. I say she needs at least a disciplinary action from HR, if not termination.


Let us know how this plays out.

That was my first take on the situation, for some reason she's reacting as if she's having her toes stepped on and was going to bet this wasn't the first time she was in trouble. And just curious, are you new to this particular property or has she been there for so long....?

Having been in your situation before, AFTER the HR and higher level meetings didn't work, I sit the trouble person down and inform them "I'm the manager here. This company is happy with the job I'm doing for them and you are not going to make me look bad". It's amazing how that one-on-one works. And seriously, what is she going to tell you, you're not the manager? If they push back, I add in this is the way it is, so you need to decide whether or not this works for you.

Also, do you meet regularly with your staff? You can get important feedback "reminders" about things you may have overlooked because you're busy with the million and one other things that you do. It may be awkward at first, but after a while you'll find it starts to flow and this trouble person "could" turn into a resource.

People are going to play all sorts of games - and even if they know they're losing they can't or won't stop themselves and instead further try to justify their position. Sounds like what you've got going on here. Good luck with this one, but I don't think it's going to end well for her.

Julia, I am going on what you have written and you are receiving good feedback from everyone based upon the information that you have given. I would like to ask a question as to who has been there longer. I am assuming that she has and you came on new? If so, then there are a whole set of dynamics that comes with this.
When you came on board did you do a group and then an individual meeting with your folks? Talk about what your vision and expectations were for the staff and the conducting of business? Then individual meetings to find out about each individual on what they seen as very right and wrong with the properties and what they would do to make things better. Talk to them about their personal goals, short and long term and what you can do to support them?
Do you do quarterly counseling sessions with each of your staff members as to what they are doing good on and what they need to improve on? In doing this and there are areas they need to improve on, do you have the information needed in order to assist them on where to go, look, and or do in order to improve?
Doing quarterly performance counseling’s and monthly if there were areas which were negative to talk over the negative and working on those, so that in the next performance counseling it is a non issue. In these sessions keep in mind you also want feedback as well. If it is done affectively, then at annual counseling time there are no surprises.
Also legally, if there is an issue, you have documentation which supports and protects the management and you. You also want to ensure that when there is a disciplinary action which requires a negative counseling that it is done right away. Give them a spot also where they can do a rebuttal. Have them sign it. Ensure that there is a portion on which reads that by them signing it, that it is not an admission of guilt, but that they were talked to about the issue. If they refuse to sign, then get your assistant manager to witness it, or your higher that they can sign it that in fact the areas were brought to the person’s attention in person.
Keep, the items locked away and ensure the person also gets a copy. You can also, if your company has a lawyer and have the items reviewed before hand is also that extra little step. So, if you have to go to court, everything is covered.
Then the last thing is that we as manager and leaders are not always right and we have our failings. We do not have to like someone in order to work with them. We do need to ensure that we give them the same time and rights as that person we really care about. I have seen many leaders see a person and they see red and even when the other person is trying it is not seen because of some past wrong or mistake. I always had a confidant that I respected and would be brutally honest with me if I was out in left field. Being close to something can sometimes blind us to the big picture.
One thing for sure is you came on here to get some opinions and that speaks volumes. The thing is if you get what you do not want to hear, but it is the right thing what will you do with it as that also speaks volumes on the kind of leader you are as well.
I have had personnel while I was in the military that would have been thrown out of the Army, but all they needed was someone to be fair and really listen. Out of all that I received there were only a couple lost causes. They has been burnt so many times until, they did not trust anyone.

Hey Nate; a bit off topic here; but can you take a few minutes and look at the thread TOPIC: Military Housing Staff - Supercede confidentiality and give some advice?

I seem to remember at one time you posted about having experience being in charge of military housing somewhere.

If you don't mind my commentary, awesome feedback Mr. Nate. Not to diminish what you're feeling Ms Julia because I can tell it's got you very frustrated, but yes if you step back you'll see this person isn't being taken seriously, has been in trouble before, is digging the hole deeper and you're clearly being supported by your company. And because of that I want to say so very much "don't worry about it" but it won't help you feel better.

I thought I saw in your post that they're concerned about taking action against her because the last term wasn't handled correctly and it came back to bite them. If you haven't already done so, have you considered taking a proactive step to approach them and say well let's make sure that doesn't happen again, so, what do you need from me to make this work? (.... start leading them ;) )

Thank you all so much for your input...

Our RM is coming to the property at the end of the month (first availability) to discuss the issue with the cleaner. If she admits to posting the review, then she will be terminated. If she denies it, then we are just adding the incident to her ever-growing personnel file.

As for the previous termination, we did everything the way we were supposed to. We let her go because she, to be frank, just was not good at her job - even after coaching. She also openly discussed that she was actively seeking to increase her side jobs so she wouldn't have to work here anymore. So, we let her go and replaced her with a far more skilled LC with a growth plan within our company. She claimed we fired her because she had a baby and needed breaks to express milk - not remotely true. The RM who fired her didn't even know she was breastfeeding until we got the complaint! We worry that if we fire the cleaner (I'm in PA - it's an "at-will" state, so we don't necessarily need cause) we'll end up with another bogus suit on our hands. This time, it would likely be ageism - our cleaner is mid 50's, so it's likely that her replacement would be younger than her. We know that she was involved in a lawsuit with her previous employer after she stopped working there. When did everyone become so litigious????? (I know, that's a whole different conversation......)

It's interesting that 'who started first' was brought up a few times...I was promoted to Manager, and was training with the previous manager, when she was hired. So, we both started right around the same time. She wasn't used to answering to a different manager, and then had to adjust to me. I can see why you'd ask that, though, because she behaves as though she was here longer. In her job history, every other position she's had has been supervisory/management in some field, so I really think that regardless of everything else happening on site, she just needs to feel in control, and I won't let her control me.

In the past when I have held leadership roles, I have always encouraged my team members to take ownership of issues as they arise and make decisions that they are comfortable with. At the same time, my request has been pretty simple: if the employee is uncomfortable with the issue as presented, come to me with a solution in mind and be able to summarize it as follows:

- I have this issue or see this as an issue to be one with a potential problem if not addressed.
- I want to do ..........
- In order to do this, I need.......
- I expect (result) in (timetable)
- Before proceeding, I would like feedback......


I lead with a philosophy of empowerment, which adds to the development, growth, and cohesiveness of the team.

Well it sounds as if you've got it under control.

Glad to hear you're the manager there and not the other way around. I can only imagine what a nightmare that would have turned into.

Hello Julia, When people start rumors it is called (Games People Play). I myself have been in this type of situation, it can be very upsetting. When it happens to me, there is nothing I can do to change that rumor. The best tool that I have come across to overcome this type of rumor is my computer, I go to (Hard skills vs Soft skills). I judge myself, and grade myself accordingly. Also, remember your management company does not operate by rumors, they work off of numbers. They usually call your attention at the break even point, not when the property is fallen. If none of this has happened, I would not worry about a rumor.