Topic: Opinions on Notice to Vacate

We forgot to send a renewal notice to a unit whose lease expires December 31st. Per the lease agreement, it goes month to month at the same terms upon expiration. The current lease requires a 60-day notice to vacate.

The tenant gave a notice to vacate on December 12th of January 31st. He is saying since it goes month to month December 31st, so he only has to give a 30-day notice.

I'm saying he is still in the current lease term, which requires a 60-day notice to vacate.

What do you think?

Thanks!

Hi Sandy! I am probably soft hearted on this one. I'd let the notice stand since the resident did not receive a notice on time. I'd just Let.It.Go.

I would certainly encourage you to accept the notice.
I agree with him that 30 days notice is required since he'd be in the new lease terms for January, which is when the lease is being terminated.
I would think technically he could even give you 30 days notice on Jan 1st, and still be out correctly on Jan 31st. (Since it's a holiday that may further complicate things, but nonetheless he already told you, so that's not relevant.)

Since the tenant was not given a renewal notice, 30 days is an acceptable term since they are not technically bound by the original lease agreement. Unfortunate, but hey at least they gave 30 days!

Unless there is some other lease condition that wasn't mentioned:

If the tenant gives notice on 1/1/15 to vacate on 1/31/15, he has complied with the 30 day notice required by the month to month lease in force at that time. And since he has already given that notice, he is in compliance with the notification requirement.

The fact that you didn't send a renewal reminder/notice isn't really a factor.

Matt

Great feedback you all! I think Matt and others are right on this one - He would have been fine to give the notice on January 1st, so it shouldn't matter if they gave it earlier.

So, everyone is in agreement that:

1. Even though the Lease Agreement is in full affect at the time the notice was given, they do not have to comply with 60 days notice because the lease will be a month to month lease at the time they will vacate?

2. Do you agree that if they do not have to comply with the 60 days notice, then we could give them a 30 day notice to vacate on December 15 to vacate on January 15th?

Hi Sandy!

1. The tenant is not giving notice for the lease that ends 12/31/14, so he is not governed by the terms of that lease. He is giving notice for the month to month lease that begins 12/1/15, so he must abide by the terms of that lease, which I understand is for a thirty day notice.

2. In my opinion, you cannot (or maybe "should not") give notice on 12/15 to vacate by 1/15 because of the same logic listed above. You would have missed the deadline (60 days, I presume) to terminate the applicable lease that is in force until 12/31. But, on 1/1 you could give the 30 day notice required to vacate on 1/31.

Just curious, do you sometimes end the lease mid-month? All of our leases run through the end of a month, and I'd be curious to hear the pros and cons of ending mid-month.

Thanks!
Matt

That's a good question about what would happen on a NTV for 1/15. My thought is that for the 1/31 scenario, the resident could have just as easily submitted their NTV on 1/1, which would be completely valid since they would only need to give a 30 day NTV under a month to month. So in that instance, they were essentially handing the Notice to Vacate in a bit early. But for the second scenario, that wouldn't be the case - you could have someone then give a 30 day Notice to Vacate on 12/2 to leave on 1/1, essentially bypassing the 60 day rule.

So in my very non-legal point of view, I think the initial scenario would be fine, but it would not necessarily be fine for the 2nd one.

Matt wrote:

Hi Sandy!

1. The tenant is not giving notice for the lease that ends 12/31/14, so he is not governed by the terms of that lease. He is giving notice for the month to month lease that begins 12/1/15, so he must abide by the terms of that lease, which I understand is for a thirty day notice.

2. In my opinion, you cannot (or maybe "should not") give notice on 12/15 to vacate by 1/15 because of the same logic listed above. You would have missed the deadline (60 days, I presume) to terminate the applicable lease that is in force until 12/31. But, on 1/1 you could give the 30 day notice required to vacate on 1/31.

Just curious, do you sometimes end the lease mid-month? All of our leases run through the end of a month, and I'd be curious to hear the pros and cons of ending mid-month.

Thanks!

To answer the question about my lease expiration dates (by the way, this scenario was not my property, but one I oversee), I only end leases mid-month in November on my property because I do not expire leases Thanksgiving through February 28th of the next year. It has always been my opinion that it is hard to rent leases during this time.

However, I do end them on the last Sunday of the month (not the 31st) to give me enough time to get an apartment ready starting on Monday and ending on Friday to reduce loss to vacancy during make-ready and have them ready for a weekend move-in.

This year, however, I had 4 early terminations in December plus one month to month starting in November that is moving December 31st and one early termination for January 25th. I am not having any trouble renting them at all! :)

That's a tough one!

I think he would have to wait until December 31st to give 30 days notice. If he gives notice before his lease expires, it sounds like it has to be 60 days.