Topic: Security Cameras

Have any of you used camera systems to monitor their properties? I am trying to determine which are the best systems with reasonable costs.

Some time ago, our insurance people recommended against cameras because of the presumption that they are monitored 24 hrs.

The other way to look at it is to figure out what problem you're trying to solve. For example, we tied motion sensors to the pool lighting, which brightly illuminated the area and strongly discouraged some nighttime au naturel bathers. So think about what behaviors you're discouraging and if there's another way.

We are getting complaints of people gathering out in front of the buildings at night. There are often beer bottles and other garbage left outside the day after. Tenants have called the police on several occasions. I would like to be able to identify if it is existing tenants or people from outside the complex. I thought the cameras would help to both help deter that type of activity and also help identify parties that are doing it. I have cameras in other business's and it helps when people know that they are being recorded. Its also nice to randomly check up on things from time to time during times when you think shananagins might be going on. I was hoping someone had set up a system and had tips on the best systems.

The only system for your situation,is to hire off dute police officers to enforce either your no loitering,no public drinking,or your littering policies in your community handbook.You should sign a "no trespass"affadavit with your local law enforcemnt agency.

Do you have a picnic area where folks can gather after work? Have you sent a notice to the buildings where this is happening? Have you let the concerned residents know that they can call the person on call and have them check out the situation? I would address the behavior first before going to the expense of cameras. A camera by itself is not going to stop the behavior, unless they are monitored 24/7.

I have recently put cameras in some buildings and am having great success.

We have a property in Charleston, SC that had vandalism and loitering everyday. Since the cameras have gone live, the problems in the building have stopped. It is currently projected that the ROI will be 300% this year from the camera system.

What you should also look at is a program like what Pierce at LEDIC Management has done recently. In speaking with him a few months back, it sounds like it has made a huge difference and it is so simple.

progressive.powerstream.net/008/00167/press/projectsafeways.wmv

The most important thing to me is having staff that is out walking the community, and showing the residents that they care. If they stay hiding in the office, the few bad residents will take the place over.

I hope this helps.

This is not a solution. I'm going to contact the management company to see how the program is working for them. Here are some thoughts:
1. I would question their position about who is taking responsibility for security. I'm guessing it is now the police department.
2. The license plate recognition software is gaining ground across the US. I think it's the cat's pajamas. However, I question it's role on private property. Also it would seem there is the assumption that only bad guys are in cars that are connected to a wanted person. It does not detect that the owner has a rap sheet a mile long.
3. The demo video shown was during the day time. I'd be interested to see the video quality at night.
4. I agree with staff walking around. I have yet to interact with a property where the staff is walking the parking lot at night.

If anyone has more insight, please reply or contact me directly.
Pat Murphy
LPT Security Consulting.

Bob Pekol wrote:

We are getting complaints of people gathering out in front of the buildings at night. There are often beer bottles and other garbage left outside the day after. Tenants have called the police on several occasions. I would like to be able to identify if it is existing tenants or people from outside the complex. I thought the cameras would help to both help deter that type of activity and also help identify parties that are doing it. I have cameras in other business's and it helps when people know that they are being recorded. Its also nice to randomly check up on things from time to time during times when you think shananagins might be going on. I was hoping someone had set up a system and had tips on the best systems.

Bob:
The suggestion of off duty officers is a good one. It's short term and can be re initiated fairly quickly. Cameras are not the deterrent they once were because they're everywhere but frankly to spend that type of money to monitor littering may be somewhat of a waste. Even if you could identify them what would be your next step?

Call the police station that serves your property and have the officers who work that area come by and talk with you. Tell them you'd appreciate their help. They'll always come by more often, especially if you have the no trespass warning in place.

Pat

It would be good to hear from others who have installed cameras at their properties and get the pros and cons of doing so.

I personally have a building with two issues; 1. properly tracking over occupancy. I am finding it difficult to keep track of tenants adding occupants without request/approval. Secondly, I have intermitten issues with activity on the street, loitering, etc. Would be good to identify when someone is in front of the building and whether it is associated with a tenant or not.

I also figured the cameras would be a deterrant.

However, I have resisted due to fear of negative perception from prospective tenants that building is not safe.

Appreciate any suggestions or feedback/experiences.

J,

I am not sure that camera's are going to help you with your first challenge. It will help you with the second, as people will stop loitering in areas where they know they are being watched or recorded.

I have found that the good residents like having the camera's on the properties, and the residents that don't like them have something to hide.

We will be installing camera's on several more properties in the first quarter, and will continue this trend in 2010.

The ROI on this systems are great.

Michael

I'd like to ask what type of recorder is going to be used at each location?

Also do you have published retention guidelines for the length of time video is maintained before it is overwritten?

With today's terabyte hard drives, the amount of video that can be stored is dictated by the number of cameras, the FPS (frames per second) speed, and drive space.

I'm also interested in ROI. Is that a quantitative determination or just based on feedback of residents?

Thanks

I installed cameras in a few multi family buildings, I make sure to have an internet connection so i can watch it remotely, I also give the login info. to 4 of my close friends so they can take a look any extra time they have, is solves 99% of my problems

I wanted to give you some feedback on your post. If you can monitor then the cameras should be recording at all times.

If there is ever a law suit, a plaintiff's lawyer would have a field day with the issue of four friends having access to watch. while it may seem like a good idea, the problems will arise when their training and background is drawn into question. What do your residents perceive as the benefit of the cameras? Is there some implied relationship whereby the residents feel the cameras are being monitored and recorded for their safety?

It is a messy business. Regardless of your intentions, a plaintiff may prevail given the circumstances you described. You may wish to consult with your legal counsel.

Regarding the friend issue,

I posted signs in the buildings that the premises are being monitored and recorded 24/7,

2) friends I’m referring as unpaid to watch.

in many cases i had 1 of the 4 people calling me that there's suspicious activity in the common areas, and i took care of it right away, which thankfully is rarely happening since.

so far the tenants feel a lot safer since this is installed.

The liability arises under 2 circumstances:
1. Where tenants think there are cameras and there are not (there is a famous rape case involving this)
2. When the cameras seem as if they are actually monitored 24/7 instead of recording 24/7. One gives the impression that someone is actually watching out for them real-time versus incident playback.

We have done many buildings by a great company that also maintains the system. They linked them together so I can watch them all on one screen. My tenants do feel safer and we recently used video from one of them to catch a suspect the police arrested!

I am all for it.

can you please tell me what company you used? we are looking to install some cameras. thanks.

I used Global Security Consulting, Inc.
(888)853-8385 ask for Daniel and tell him Tony referred you.
Let me know how it works out.

I was also considering the camera system in my building to stop the loitering in front, to stop overcrowding in the apartments & to stop people from selling drugs in the lobby of the building. the investment is about 7.5grand and I am unsure if it is worth the investment. I fear that vandals will destroy the cameras and it will be even more of an expense. Also, the internet service costs $30 per month or $360 a year. I contacted the police and am awaiting to see if they pay more attention to my building. i also gave them the key to my front door and permission to eneter as they wish if there are problems there or if they suspect illegal activity.

I'd be interested in what someone is trying to sell you for that kind of money. The average high def color camera is around $500. There are camera housings that are "vandal proof". That does not mean they can't shoot them but it would protect against occasional attack.

Thanks
Pat Murphy
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At my site we only have cameras in our clubhouse and office. We are not liable for any other areas. Isn't this the norm? This is what I always thought and was advised on from our security installers. Otherwise, isn't it a liability?

When you say "other areas" what exactly does that entail? Any part of the property that you have control over is "yours" whether you have cameras or not. Camera installers should stick to connecting wires.

There is a company out of St. Louis I know of that just does video surveillance for apartment complexes. They are members of the local St. Louis Apt Assoc (Watchtower Security). They do everything including reviewing the video as a full service monthly for clients.

Just adding my two cents. They would probably know answers to some of these questions. I'd go to the source.

I run a courtesy patrol service called Signal 88 security- Boise and I am a Multi-family Security Expert. Each property will have its own unique needs and situations. Pools and Hot Tubs can be highly problematic in the summer because of trespassing and issues that can occur once the manager has left for the evening. Having a camera to record events can be very nice especially when you get calls at home regarding late night pool issues. In most newer systems you have the ability to view the cameras from a smart phone, Ipad or your home computer. This can help you as a manager avoid walking into a bad situation if you are the person responsible for after hours response.

A courtesy patrol might be a good idea as well. You can't be everywhere and having some eyes on the property after-hours can be a huge help. Also having a third party response to noise issues helps provide the management with a added level of transparency if they ever have to issue a lease violation or appear in court for an eviction that results from documents lease violations. Not all patrol services are equal, an you get what you pay for in many instances. I would suggest checking references, local and state licensing, Insurance coverage levels and ask to see their patrol cars? If thy look like a low budget operation they probably can't be trusted to protect your property effectively.

While this type of service can seem like an expense, it can actually improve your bottom lines. My clients found that their occupancy near the pool area's improved and had much less turnover. Also female renters like having this type of service because security is a higher concern for them. Having someone that can respond quickly to a noise issue will also raise the satisfaction level of tenants and having a third party verify lease violations allows a manager to charge for those violations with fewer disputes.

Using good contracts will help you to keep your property safe. The Crime Free Lease Addendum has held up in court around the country and might be a good addition to your lease agreement. www.crime-free-association.org/lease_addendums_az_english.htm

Each property is different and this isn't legal advice. I do hope this helps you keep your properties safe and secure.

Crime is an equal opportunity offender (no pun intended with crime and fair housing)....

If you have a courtesy officer, I would have him provide a flyer to post door to door that explains who his team is, and what they do for the community. Mine not only was hired to control and minimize criminal activity on/near the property and as a former law enforcement professional, has the skills and contacts with local law enforcement to tap into when needed; he also patrols the property to identify and document lease violations (excessive stuff/additional occupants and aids in identifying them), as well as any safety and lighting issues after hours. I had mine create a flyer from the mindset of 'help me do a better job for you' and got great response.

He also creates regular safety and security tips for the newsletter and facebook page.

If you are wondering what placement you should have for video cameras; every property is unique, but I would suggest the following:

1) Office door/rent drop; as well as every entrance to the office/community building to monitor entries and exits.
2) Laundry facilities: if you have them, there was a news story here where people are actually stealing whole appliances for access to the coin boxes and recyclable materials.
3) Pool/fitness room for safety.
4) Multiple angles on all parking areas.
5) Mailboxes; if you have these in an enclosure of some sort, you can post a laundry card recharge station and other vending machines there as well, so long as they are under video surveillance.

A property must consider the various components of their security plan (yes...you do have one) as part of the whole. In other words, courtesy officers cannot be THE security plan.

The overriding purpose for having a plan (should be in writing) is to provide a defense to litigation in the event you get sued. There are no national standards as to what a security plan looks like or employs so the "standard" becomes whatever you do or do not have in place. The legal test is whether those actions are deemed "reasonable" in light of the property's current security issues. The difficulty is knowing what is needed to meet that reasonable standard. Doing nothing is not reasonable unless you live on an island and all tenants live the life of the pope.

Courtesy officers can be an excellent tool but they are rarely managed properly due to lack of accountability. Are they really doing the things you have contracted them to do? If a property manager cannot answer that question with 99.9% certainty then the communications process needs to be reviewed.

Check here for information on courtesy officer management: lptoday.com/security-articles/