Topic: Decision Makers

I am not sure if this is an industry trend topic or not, so Brent feel free to do with it what you wish, but its one that I have seen pop up a few times in the past couple of months. Maybe this is nothing new to most of you, but it is new to me since as most of you know I am relatively new to the industry. I have listened to both perspectives and would be interested in your comments on how to address this issue. There seems to be a general lack of proper "chivalry" on the part of the vendor and their approach to decision makers in this industry. Last night I was tweeting with someone from California who seemed quite upset over some vendor who went above her head to promote some product. Completely understandable!

Last month I was following a discussion on ASTD National on the Linkedin site. This particular topic was from a vendor's prospective who felt he had a legitimate service or product to offer and was frustrated over Decision Maker arrogance as he called it. This resulted in over 60 comments from individuals going back and forth with their perspective and viewpoints. Now, I don't know the whole story from either side, but found it interesting the strong emotions that were the result.

I'd like to go back to the word "chivalry". This word invokes in me the thought of just doing things the "proper" way. For instance when you come to a door you are going through, and there is a lady behind you, chivalry kicks in and you hold the door open for her. This is the automatic and proper way of doing things.

That being said, I am wondering if this word "chivalry" can be applied to the "vendor" and "decision maker" relationship? Our whole conference in Vegas had the theme "Knowledge is Power" Both sides of the industry are doing their personal best to live up to the changing standards of doing business.

Perhaps now some "Knowledge" or better yet wisdom can be shared. What do you think can be done to improve the relationship and process between the key decision makers in this industry and the vendors who are promoting a product or service?

What a tough situation, and unfortunately, I don't see a solution anytime soon. The problem is that there are people on both sides of the fence that give their respective sides a bad name. There are obviously bad salespeople who are not trying to build a relationship, but rather use any conniving trick to get the sale. On the other hand, there are certain decision makers that treat salespeople like dog-meat.

We (at MFI) are trying to promote vendors as partners to decision makers while making sure to weed out the annoying/pushy vendor problems that are inherent.

I think it's important that vendors show restraint and long-term thinking. They need to give salespeople incentives not just on initial sales, but also on repeat sales down the line so that there is a vested interest in creating long-term relationships.

On the flip side, decision makers need to be open to the fact that vendors are there to improve your business. Whether an investment into new technology or cost savings to existing technology, there should be an ROI with a vendor. So seeing a new vendor as a nuisance isn't as productive as seeing them as an opportunity.

In the end, you are right that we need to have ways to better communicate, work together, and share in each other's success.

It comes down to more than just your product as a vendor. If you come at someone and try to convince them that they need you and need to pay you, it's just not going to work. People don't like that. The best approach is, "Here's what i can do to make your life/business easier/more profitable/less stressful, etc."

Vendors, it's not about you. It's not about your product. It's about your customer and their needs. I can have all the temps in the world, but if I don't have a customer who needs them, then I don't have a job. I'm sorry, I know it's harsh to put it that way, but I'm tired of seeing pitches before I meet and get to know the pitcher. Don't try to sell me on yourself before I know you or before you know if I need you. I hear the same kinds of stories that Jonathan does and it's aggravating to say the very least.

You have to show the proper level of respect to your clients. If you put in the time and work on building that relationship the way you are supposed to, so that it's a REAL relationship and not a one time fast talking sales elevator pitch, then it will pay off. People don't do business with others who can't respect them or take the time to get to know them.

I have never met a regional or "decision maker" who didn't respect the approach of me trying to see if I meet their needs. They want and have earned a certain level of respect in our industry and even if they aren't going to chose to become my client, I'm still going to respect them. And I'm certainly not going to foobar a deal midway through the relationship phase by jumping to the next banana tree that looks like it might be more fruitful.

It gets me so worked up, the lack of chivalry as Jonathan calls it, because when one vendor does it and treats their clients like that, it makes the rest of us look like schmucks.

This is a very challenging topic. I've been on both sides of the business now, so I understand the mentality of, "Please don't insist on trying to sell me something in which I have not expressed interest." I've encountered the persistent vendor who is just "SURE" they have what I need. My reaction is to run and hide. Now I'm on the other side of the coin and I see that instant knee-jerk reaction of decision makers veering down the alley if they see their path is going to cross mine or any other vendor's.

I guess it comes down to this - we can't control those around us, we can only control ourselves and our own interactions. I choose to approach decision makers, and everyone else I run into, with respect. Respect for their intelligence, their time, and their needs/wants. If I can offer something that may benefit them, then great. If not, at least we can be on friendly terms, and they don't have to feel the need to flee.

I love Jonathan's idea of 'chivalry' because it is so often lacking in the business world. I wonder what kind of "code of vendor chivalry" this multifamilyinsiders community could come up with. That would be very interesting!

Hello Everyone! Thank you for the responses on this. I will be happy to identify myself as the Twitter Cal Gal @HappyAllDays (who wasn't very happy last evening)who tweeted this subject last night. I will be kind and remove the name of the company and the sales person for obvious reasons. (As a side note: I do work with this company in one of my markets as it does seem to suit their needs.) We went through the sales presentation and determined it did not meet our global needs two months ago and have sought another company. Yesterday, my CEO, COO and VP of Operations received a message from the vendor stating he would like to get in front of them to present their product. I'll shoot straight from the hip on this one. If the primary decision maker for the company in this area has made a decision not utilize your services... it should be respected. It even begs the question "Have you ever been successful cold emailing the President of a major REIT to pitch your marketing company?" I think not. That is why there are various decisions makers who are experts in their field working at the company. To further aggravate the situation when we contacted the vendor he had become so disagreeable and actually stated "I'm a salesman and I will continue to contact people until I get their attention." Or something to that degree. It was so astounding to me that this kind of sales practice is still in use today. I understand that everyone has a job to do but you lose more ground when you become adversarial and disrespectful. This is a reflection of your product. Even to the point when asked to cease he stated if we had a problem with his business practice to call the principles of his company. Now this is a far, far, FAR and few between situation and one that truly unnerved me. I have had and continue to have strong relationships with my vendors as I feel they are a partner with our company. They are here to support our company and its success. And yes, it is truly difficult to get the attention of Marketing heads as we are constantly bombarded with new and exciting products. I can absolutely appreciate that. But no means no and you have to respect that. Be respectful of our decisions and we will respect you more. We may even refer you to others.

And I agree! There needs to a shared responsibility of chivalry in our industry. We all work together. We sometimes go to other different areas of our industry and we need to keep our reputation intact. This is a very close knit community in which we call home. I also can appreciate the fact that we are all under extraordinary pressures. Don't make poor choices in your communication as it only reflects poorly upon you and your company in which you are promoting.

I agree with your topic. I would hate to have been on the reciving end of that call. It sometimes uncomfortable when a vendor does not seem to work or try to communciate with the client. Creating a relationship is what opens the door to many more opportunities. I sincerely understand what "sales" means and how it works but in the long run, emailing the president will not get you anywhere. Thanks for sharing this topic!

I've been on both sides of the desk, from the multifamily side, I negotiated with many Vendors on behalf of the Owner & yes, I had a couple that went direct to the top. When the Owner called I let him know exactly how I felt, especially a sales person actions on-site & I felt that this difficult attitude would hinder our business relationship.
On the other hand, I've worked with several Management professionals at different levels and ended up with the entire company as a client.

But I have to tell you I was exhibiting at a state Trade Show and had an Owner come up and tell me he wasn't going to do business as I never responded to his email. Well, I was also working with an RM at the time and she told me to deal with her only and she would handle everything. I was told by the RM they were not interested, so I never contacted him further. After the Trade Show, I forwarded her email to him and told him my cell number that he could call me 24/7 and we could have his online store up and running with 48 hours for nationwide purchases. He responded, shocked & apologized & all is well.

But Darcey, I will say if that was one of my Reps, they would be fired, as you are correct, it definitely reflects poorly on the company. Let alone the reputation that Rep will get in the industry, as there is a reason it's called "multifamily", it's one large family nationwide! Don't burn those bridges as you might need to cross it again down the road!

Like many of you, I too have been on both sides, having run marketing operations for several owners and managers before going into business for myself in 1996.

On the one hand, you need those in your sales force to be "hungry" for the sale. On the other, you can't afford to have people who convey "I really need to sell my stuff to someone...are you that lucky person today?" LOL!

Being in the relationship and communication business, we really try to practice what we preach in everything we do. If your goal is to create relationships and partnerships, hard selling is the wrong way to go! We are blessed that our sales team takes a very consultative, soft sell, approach.

It comes down to hiring team members who have "it" - a caring, giving, respectful soul who thrives on relationships, problem solving and solutions. Hard selling doesn't work. Perseverance works, but harrassment of course doesn't. Understanding that you will not close every prospective deal is important, as is the attitude that "I am not going to close every one...but this one will."

As I read everyone's comments, it reminded me of comments a friend and a client shared last week at NAA when we were all sitting down chatting - with both referring to the same company. When referring to this one company, a decades long friend in the business said the president of this firm literally called him 26 days in a row to try to "sell him." 26 days in a row! And he left a message every day. And he kept calling despite my friend saying no thanks. Our client then shared a story about the same firm, describing the sales approach of the president of this company as "stalking." Wow, is that the reputation a "service provider" would want to have?!?!?

If one wants to build relationships and partnerships, it starts with the positives I noted as well as the great comments about chivalry. It comes down to genes, how one was raised, and the company's environment and leadership.

Doug, we all know that it really takes 27 days in a row to get the sale. That's "Sales 101", isn't it? :)

is it possible to be persistent without being annoying? We've worked with clients who we contact every month and try to get them to let us earn their business. Sometimes it works over time, sometimes it doesn't, but I'd say if you're going to call on someone, make it once a month, and change your approach once and a while. Bring them wine. Bring a Pie. Send Flowers. Send chocolate. Don't just call like a madman :)

Mike Brewer once told me that it's a lot like dating. You don't talk about marriage on the first date. You talk about the person that you're out with and get to know them.

I think it's important to be respectful. That works in both directions. I want the vendor to respect my time and respect that I may or may not have a use for their product/service. I need to be respectful of their time and the energy that they put into preparing for a meeting with me or the time spent preparing a pitch. That being said - "no" should mean exactly that. It also doesn't mean never but it certainly doesn't mean in 5 minutes or tomorrow. There are vendors that I've known for quite a while without using their product or service - some of these relationships have developed into successful partnerships with those companies.

To excerpt from an e-mail that I received from a vendor just the other day... "Persistent little bugger... ain't I? You haven't spam blocked me yet." It is safe to say that this is not the way to earn business and I will not do business with this individual.

Call it chivalry, call it respect, or just call it manners - call it whatever you like as long as you use it when working with other people!

Great comment, Matt, and you bring up a good follow-up question. You mentioned that a "no" doesn't mean "never", but how long is reasonable to wait until a future follow up? Heather seemed to suggest one month. Or a does a "no" warrant more time than that?

And vendors, do you all ever give rejection gifts - basically, a thank you for taking the time while continuing to build a relationship even though the current answer is not positive?

Thoughts everybody?

That really is a good follow-up question, Brent. When I worked on the Property Management side, once a quarter was more than enough for me and the senior management I worked for. I had one vendor who had a great product, but the timing was not right, so he checked in every 3-4 months with an interesting article or interesting fact. I knew why he was calling, but the sales aspect wasn't the hard driving purpose of the call. After about a year and a half, I heard from the higher ups that they were interested in looking at these types of products. I called that vendor right away and let him know there was interest, and was able to schedule a productive and welcome demo with a roomful of senior management. If he had been overly aggressive and had worn me down enough to give in and schedule a meeting from the very beginning, he just would have had an audience of one. Me. A middle manager who was not a decision maker for this product.

It really is about the relationship building and treating each other with respect so when the timing is right, there's the opportunity for the right kind of meeting with the right people. And that's a big win for everyone.

I make it a point to send a thank you card (handwritten) or a gift. Even if it's a $5 latte at Starbucks, that still makes a good impression and they're less likely to be annoyed when you come back to talk to them in the next month or quarter. Plus, it shows your company has a little class and cares more about the relationship than the coin in their pocket.

I appreciate the great flow in this discussion. This is such a positive message from both sides of the table. The other industry I was in, the philosophies presented by all of you are what I have lived by my entire career. This separated me and the company I worked for from all the rest. I was never classified by my staff or my clients as a 2 bit salesperson or manager.

I agree with the follow up scenario, after a "no" has been presented. There are many other ways to establish name recognition or branding your product or service, without having to become a stalker. Even that being said, if you have already developed somewhat of a personal/business relationship with someone, there are other things to talk about other than just business. If you truly have a personal interest in an individual and have a sincere heart, then other subjects will come up. "How is your grandma feeling?""How was your trip last month?""How big is your Great Dane puppy now?"

If you are a sincere person and know even a little bit about the decision maker you correspond with, this will not take much effort, but will become automatic.

What a great conversation! To hear everyone's perspectives is very helpful. I have only one thing to add that has become my motto in everything right now.

Follow the Golden Rule: Treat people the way you want to be treated. I think this can be applied to both sides of the fence.

We've had a great discussion so far, with a lot of it dealing with vendors behaving well. But I want to throw out a question for the other side:

If a vendor has been in contact several times back and forth with a decision maker (or his/her team) over a period of time, is it the decision maker's duty to a) actually take the time to say yes/no to the vendor, and b) Should that effort be done directly from the person the vendor has been speaking to.

For example, when the vendor calls, should the decision maker take the call him/herself and tell the vendor no, or is it acceptable to instruct their receptionist to not take the call and tell them no by proxy?

(As I'm sure you can tell, this has happened to me! :blink: )

I think it's the decision maker's responsibility to tell the vendor whatever or not they are interested in (or are able to) pursuing the vendor's product/service. Sometimes a vendor may be dealing with an onsite manager who isn't necessarily the decision maker. In that case, once the manger receives a response from their superior they should tell the vendor (instead of having the LC who is answering [read:screening] calls say no to the vendor... or avoiding a direct answer by putting the vendor off).

My advice to vendors is to "be there." Be at apartment association meetings. Call periodically to see if their needs have changed, so you can be available when/if they are ready. Be good to your current clients and let them get you in the door. Offer to sponsor resident events and company meetings. Even if you're not doing business with them, the company will appreciate and know that you are there to help their interests. In turn, they will probably be more willing to help yours. :)

Wow, what a great thread!

Some thoughts: 1) Regarding Brent's question on whether a vendor deserves an answer from the decision-maker they've been interacting with, I have found (when operating as the client) that it has generally been well received by the vendor when I directly and specifically share what we liked about the product and sales process AND what made us either hesitate or ultimately need to say "No."

2) As a vendor, we try to value-add all along the process - if we end up not being the best source to deliver a project/service to a client- we refer to our competitors. It's painless and we've received call backs for other projects when we did this - because we focus on preserving the relationship. Whenever I've been in too much of a hurry to "get the proposal out" rather than thoughtfully add-value in some fashion - I've always ended up regretting it.

3) When doing a cold call or an initial presentation (after inquiry) we often send a "coffee break in a box" - sending a bottled Starbucks frappucino, a few individually wrapped biscotti and our materials. We share that we appreciate that the client's time is valuable and that although we would love to have a coffee with them in person, we invite them to enjoy a coffee break on us and review the materials when it suits them. We have typically received a warm reception to this; however, there have been times - when we didn't get a response at all.

4) I think vendors have to think of themselves not only as solutions-provider (which has been pointed out in the posts) but also as a partner (walk in the client's shoes). Don't call on Mondays, on the first of the month, or push on in your presentation - when you see the potential client sighing or when they are sending signals that show you need to G-O (go!).

Bottom-line - in this harried, hurried world - people appreciate when instead of looking out for #1 - you look for ways to be a resource or help without attaching a price tag.

Great post, Deb! I like your comments regarding referring to competitors - I think there is immense value in working with competitors when possible, even though it might take a little creative thinking to figure it out.

And your point about taking visual (and other) cues, such as sighing or checking their watch, is spot-on! It's also a time where you can show that you are actually listening and care about their concerns.

Each human being faces marketing ideas every day. Marketing ideas can be different from simple ones to complicated hardly to be resolved.

I've been on both sides of the issue and looking back from the "owner" perspective I would say it has been about 20% of the time I was happy to talk with the sales person. The other 80% of the time the person didn't bring any value to our company. I guess I tend to take these calls because there really might be some value that a vendor can bring to our organization and who better to know our P&L than the owner. I believe (maybe because of my sales background) it's better to talk with vendors (you should know within 5 minutes if they are going to add value to your company) about their offerings.

On the flip side as a sales person I very seldom try to start a conversation with someone other than the person who can make the decision. However, when that does happen I've experienced many well intended "gatekeepers" so to speak who have no vested interest in seeing a more effective or efficient operation. If I've started my initial discussions with a person I will never go above a persons head unless it's critical and I ask for their permission first.

Great topic

The output of every decision making can be an opinion, a choice, or an action. To arrive at a final decision, problem analysis must be done first, then glean all the important information which may be used towards the right decision making. Consult it also with your "Associates". They play an important role of gathering an accurate information since they have the experience, knowledge, and understanding to help you make the best final decisions.

tough call, but there'll be a solution to everything
but i think what to do right now is wait
if one side takes action, then time to react, but don't be too persistent i think