Topic: Woman seeking Christian roommate cleared by HUD on Fair Housing

Question for the group: Do you believe Fair Housing should apply to roommate listings?

Here's a link for discussion: www.mlive.com/news/grand-rapids/index.ss...ion_case_was_dr.html

Thanks to Doug Chasick for the heads up.

I have been following this story for weeks now. I am not going to throw out an opinion necessarily but all the facts on how this whole thing transpired made me sick. This was such overkill and destroyed the fundamentals of what the Fair Housing act stands for. I guess I did just form an opinion :)

Would the situation be different, had she said "White roommate wanted?"

Way to bring out the big guns, Judy! :) I think you are correct that it would have been different, but I think the question of whether it should be different is very difficult without being labeled a racist. Just discussing these topics makes people very uncomfortable...

But outside of the racism element, let's take a simple man/woman concept on this. Based on Fair Housing, a woman would not be able to advertise that she did not want to live with a man. But frankly, I think that most people would be ok with that wish. So I think this situation is one where it doesn't universally "makes sense" to apply Fair Housing rules to roommate searches.

Nice thoughts Judy and Brent. Don't you think that this case just demonstrated what could be determined as just a loss of common sense? What will be next? Not allowing to advertise in personals people you want to socialize, date, or live with?

GREAT example, Jonathan.

Do we really want the government telling us who we can or can't live with in our own homes? It's different when a business or owner is renting out an apartment or house - they don't live with the tenant in it, but if I were renting a room to someone I would want the option of choosing who that person was based on my own opinions regardless of the label someone wanted to assign to that opinion.

I may be unclear on this topic, but as I understand it, Boarding houses (where owner occupies)- roommates housing-and non commercial lodging is excluded from Title VI. As a single woman, I can advertise for a woman only roommate. I reviewing the legislation, it indicates that: The primary federal law which prohibits discrimination in the sale, rental, lease or negotiation for property on the basis of race, color, religion, sex, or national origin. Exclusions include owner-occupied boarding houses with more than three units and non-commercial lodging.

i am so glad to see that, on occasion, logic prevails. this girl, seeking a room mate, posted a little sign on the bulletin board at her church, stating that she wanted to find a female, christian to share her apartment.

then hud went after her for a title vi violation. the case might have slipped under the rug, except that megyn kelly and bill o'rielly brought it to the national stage on their television programs.

it would be a scary day indeed if the government were able to tell us who we were and were not allowed to invite into our homes...and the reasoning that we were allowed to do it. while it is the governments job to ensure a relatively even playing field for commerce and employment, it is the job of the individual to discriminate, to choose.

again, its wonderful to see that a young girl (and all of us) gets to evaluate the sex, religion, values, smoking, drinking or drug use habits, employment type or status, etc. of the person whose bedroom is just down the hall. congratulations.

Race discrimination is NEVER allowed.

Saar...I'm with you.
Heaven help the tortured soul who felt compelled to file the complaint.
Frivolous actions by either bored or malicious individuals result in a waste of time, money and at the end of the day just spreads bad Karma.
Sheesh.
Rodney King said it best..."Can't we all just get along?"

And just to stir the pot in this conversation delving even further into the ridiculous, should my knickers get twisted when I attend an Atlanta Thrashers Hockey game and walk by the room that says "Men"? ;)

Okay. What a shocker. I'm a rabble-rouser.
But I'm just saying...the Men's room line is always shorter.

Actually, race 'discrimination' IS allowed in many cases. My comments are not racially motivated, but serve only to clarify existing laws re: housing and employment.

Link: Housing Laws

Housing

Federal Law (See individual state laws, but most are the same as fed. law): If one is seeking a roomate in a single family dwelling(i.e. roomate will occupy a room, not a guest house ot other outlying structure), or is renting a single family structure under certain guidelines (i.e. owner owns fewer than x units). From the FHA. Equal Housing Opportunity, and section 3604(c) of the Federal Fair Housing Act:

Federal Fair Housing laws for roommates and shared housing have two components: advertising and decision-making.

Advertising: Advertising which expresses a preference based upon sex is allowed in shared living situations where tenants will share a bathroom, kitchen, or other common area.

Decision-making: Federal Fair Housing laws do not cover the basis of decisions made by landowners who own less than four units, and live in one of the units. This means that in a situation in which a landlord owns less than four rental units, and lives in one of the units, it is legal for the owner to discriminate in the selection process based on the aforementioned categories, but it is illegal for that owner to advertise or otherwise make a statement expressing that discriminatory preference.

Employment:

Contrary to popular belief, many small businesses may 'discriminate' during the hiring and advertising process. According to Title VII (Civil Rights Act), an employer with fewer than 15 employees (see Title VII - EEOC for definition of 'employee' - state laws may vary) has no obligation to comply with EEOC laws. An exempt employer may ask the following in an interview and base a hiring decision on the answer(s) given:

- Are you married?
- Do you have children?
- Do you plan to have children?
- Do you prefer to date (fill in a race) men/women?

...or any other question. Though it IS LEGAL to advertise in a 'discriminatory' manner, advertisers will usually not accept ads that appear to discriminate despite the legality of the ad. For example, an exempt employer could advertise thusly:

"Secretary Wanted: Prefer white, female dwarf with one leg and perfect vision. Must be able to use walker or cane - no wheelchairs allowed. No kids, no married people, unless applicant is married to a 7'3" albino basketball player of Hispanic descent."

Is it in good taste? Of course not. Is it legal? 100%.

I wonder how many people understand why small businesses are allowed to discriminate. The reasons are pragmatic, and even our government understood the need for small businesses, if they choose, to base hiring decisions on age, race, gender, etc.

Case law/precedent is well established re: small business owners' rights in this area. I'll leave it to the reader to research individual cases (and there are more than one).

I think that hud and fair housing act should allow people to have anykind of roommate the want and i think that hud should help people find houses and help pay for them.

Isn't one of the biggest violations on civil rights and discrimination right within out own
industry? Example follows:

Apartment Manger Team Wanted-

Looking for a husband and wife team to manage a 48 unit subsidized housing project.
Must live on site. "Cannot own other property". (This NOT in ad but the applicant will be
confronted with it, as no one who owns property can be considered via the PMC's policies).


OK, so do we have to get married to get job? Answer, no not technically, but that is what we want.

OK, so do we have to be a male and female? Answer, no not technically, but that is what we want.
And--while we are at it, we want people with a straight sexual preference only. (But we won't say that as otherwise we might get sued.)

OK, so do we have to set up an apartment on the property? Answer, yes you do, and it better "look" like you live in it.

So if we are this guilty, how can we decide if a Christian, White, (or other) male or female, is eligible to live with anyone/someone? Fair Housing, I think we have a problem!

When you open a can of worms, there is no guarantee how many will come out.