Topic: Why did they leave? I don't have a clue...

Raise your hand if you know exactly why all of your move-outs actually moved out. My guess is that if everybody raised their hand, we wouldn't be at 60% average turnover for our industry. Do you all make giving a reason for move-out a mandatory element of your move-out notice?

Great question! I know of companies that ask for feedback after an initial vist to a community by prospective residents. It is part of the guest card with just a few questions about our service and the community, postage paid, and is addressed to be mailed back to the management company. Maybe after moveout would be a good idea, too!

I ALWAYS ask my residents who submit a notice to vacate WHY they are doing so.... "Can you help me out and tell me WHY you are leaving? I like to use the feedback I get as a learning tool for me and my team." I DON'T ask if I know the answer (usually when me or my team &^*^&*^*&^%^&$^%$#^%#$% up royally!), or if the resident is one of those 'high maintenance' residents we LOVE so much, we want to WELCOME them to LEAVE (lol)....

I don't always get a response, but the responses I DO get are helpful and can be categorized as follows:

1) Lifestyle changes; some examples are:
Change in household size such that you can no longer support their need because they exceed occupancy guidelines
Change in employment status/location mandating the move
Loss of income such that rent is no longer affordable
Purchase of a home
These things you CANNOT control.

2) Customer service issues (things that did not happen as they should have). I do not need to give examples, because we all know what they typically are. These are issues that you CAN control, and when you discover that the reason the resident is leaving falls into this category; it is an opportunity to 'rescue' it, and should be considered carefully.

3) For student housing; the term is coming to an end and the students are moving back with the folks. This can be minimized by making them an offer to return for the next term; but if the student actually is graduating, they probably will not be.

4) For tax credit housing, they have had an INCREASE in their income between certifications such that they no longer qualify, these people understand that you did your job and provided them an opportunity to improve their situation. I would put this in the 'success' column and move on.


Did I miss anything?

Brent - For my property, the reason for the NTV is huge! We track all of the vacate notifications, why they are leaving, etc.
Knowing the cause helps us track our successes as well as our areas for improvement.
We are very specific in our move-out reasons which gives us an opportunity to come back to that resident and make a play for them to renew.
It also helps us track our competition, our market window (in terms of job loss, various employers, etc.) as well as rent ceilings.
If nothing else, just having the conversation with a resident about why they are leaving can be a great renewal tool.
I am amazed by how many we are able to turn around and keep.

Great thoughts and totally agree with you, Tara! All of us are asking for as much detail for the Notice, or we should be. The original question made me think of an additional way to get feedback - offering an opportunity to share a resident's experience - with the option of being anonymous - and sending it to ownership/management was what I was trying to say so early this morning. =)

You missed one!
"I hate my neighbor!"
It DOES happen.lol

Bob Wainner wrote:

Well, it was 5 yrs. ago since I last leased, but these are the
TRUE reasons I moved out:

1. A lot of turn-over in the Office/Management and for some
reason...the Manager LOST my signed lease.

2. There were 10 items in my UNIT that needed to be repaired.
I notified the Manager (in writing 3 times)...the 3rd time
was via "certified mail". None of these 10 items were
repaired within 10 weeks since I moved in...and the Manager
knew 6 weeks in advance that I was moving to my unit from
out of state...WHY wasn't my apt. 100% ready BEFORE I
arrived?

3. I counted (37) exterior mounted building lights on the site
that were burned out (2 weeks after I arrived)...2 were in
the front of my building and 2 were in the courtyard behind
my building. It was pitch black outside behind my building...
and I was on the 3rd floor - but, a stairway led up to my
unit. The Manager assured me she would get bids and have
all of the lights repaired...I found out that 5 months
later, she STILL had not fixed ANY of them. So, I didn't feel
this site was SAFE.

4. It was a gated community, but the wrought iron gate at
the main entrance was inoperable 24/7 for the first
10 weeks I lived at the property.

5. The underwater lights in BOTH pools and the Jacuzzi were
burned out...I told the Manager and she didn't seem
concerned. That wasn't really a big problem for me, but
there were many children living on the property...I told
the Manager that those lights being out were in violation
of the City and State swimming pool codes...and the pools
were NOT safe.

6. After I moved out, I noticed on a popular apt. review
website, that this property only had a 25% rating. I was
referred to this property by an apartment finder services.

7. I moved out of the property early (legally - after giving
proper notice)...no way I was going to stay.

8. When I communicated via e-mail with a Corporate VE up East,
she wrote me back and sent me "attachments" of all the
work orders for the 10 maintenance problems in my unit...
and on EVERY ONE of those work orders...they had back-dated
the work orders to a DAY 2 weeks BEFORE I moved out of my
unit...those 10 items were STILL NOT FIXED when I moved out,
so, someone was not telling the truth - either the Property
Manager or the Corporate VP.

So..........very poor maintenance, incompetent Property
Management would have to be my answer on WHY I move out of my
last apartment.

Bob Wainner
Plano, Texas

I am sorry you had to go through all that; but these are ALL excellent examples of resident turn over that would fall into the 'customer service' category. As a resident, many of these issues can be reported to the local zoning commission (for health and safety code violations). When you complained to the corporate office, and they dug into the issue; I am sure that the PM LIED to the corporate office and provided false information detailing repairs not actually made. As a resident, when I have a major repair issue, I use a digital camera to document the issue and keep the image until I am satisfied that the issue has been resolved. I also use the digital camera to take pictures at move in, print copies to keep with my copy of the move in inspection sheet; and again at move out. I keep these images until I receive my accounting back and contest any charges for repairs I should not be responsible for.

Gail Betha wrote:

You missed one!
"I hate my neighbor!"
It DOES happen.lol

I like that one, but fair housing doesn't allow you to choose your neighbors. The 'loophole' would be if I were to know as a resident that my neighbor is leaving, and if I were to refer a friend to move in and request the unit next to mine after the current resident leaves. Because this is not intervention by staff, this is not steering.

In my case, our upstairs neighbors sound like they are BOWLING upstairs, or have lead feet....... But I think they may be leaving soon.....

Johnny, we've had a similar discussion before, but I think we must have vastly different interpretations of Fair Housing. I just don't believe Fair Housing means that a resident can do absolutely whatever he/she wants. If someone moves out and says "I hate my neighbor", my guess is that something serious is going on, whether it be noise violations, trash issues, or something even worse. All those things are likely in the lease document as reasons for a warning or lease termination. Granted, there needs to be verification and documentation, but in this case, yes, you can choose your residents because they have chosen to violate the lease.

Actually, I did take digital photos and uploaded them on to my
computer. When I mentioned to the Corporate VP that those
"work orders" were definitely FAKED (that they back-dated them on
me)...guess she knew she was on shaky ground...no move-out charges of any kind appeared on my credit report. They obviously made a LOT of mistakes in my case.

It's like I told that VP...(though I was fully paid up on my
rents)...what if I were to buy a new car a dealership, but that
car didn't have an engine in it. And I had the car in my garage
for 3 months - but, couldn't drive it, since it didn't yet have
an engine. I paid all 3 monthly car payments on time. Is that really FAIR, that I had to make those 3 car payments? I don't believe so. I know, strange analogy...but, I just want what I'm
paying for, that's all.

As a tenant, all I wanted is "my money's worth", maintenance
that responds in a reasonable amount of time...I believe they're supposed to respond in 5 to 7 days - and a Management Staff that cares about me as a tenant. We all have to realize that a LEASE is a 2 way street - there are responsibilities on both ends of the lease. And the FACT that the Property Manager promised me
that she'd get right on taking care of those exterior building
lights, entry gate and underwater pool lights...and I find out
from one of my former neighbors (after I moved out) that the
gate was finally repaired, but the exterior lights and pool lights were still "burned out" several months after I moved out.
I think the Manager KNEW, that I was the ONLY person who realize
these issues were a problem, so she either didn't get the funding
from Corporate - or she just ignored the issues. I felt I was
doing her a favor...because those SAFETY problems were code
violations and "liability problems" for the Owner.

Gail,

You hit the nail on the head. I have been told again and again by apartment owners and managers (but always off the record) -- that the #1 reason people move is.....because they hate their neighbor.

Tough to deal with that one as a property manager.

Leigh

So I guess the question is why do people hate their neighbors so much? And if this is such a factor in resident turnover, then why aren't these factors addressed in the lease as reasons to terminate a lease? Is it because management won't act on that option because they are afraid of lawsuits and bad reviews?

@Brent...in my area, it is hard to evict for lease violations...the judge in my county just doesn't seem to understand that housekeeping, noise, etc ARE reasons to evict...even when I show him in black and white (the Lease) that they have agreed to keep the apartment clean and the noise down...so I send these "bad neighbors" 21-day Material Noncompliances out the bum and then when their lease is up, I don't renew it...based on the violations...I'm okay with having a vacany based on getting rid of a bad resident as long as it keeps me a good resident. I will send the eviction letter, but if they don't take the 'hint', then I can't do anything until the lease is up...

My good residents know that I will take care of the problem as soon as legally possible..., but sometimes that means putting up with a bad neighbor for awhile...I wish it weren't so, but in my area not paying the rent and/or getting caught with drugs are about the only reason the judge will let me evict...sigh....

Good (although depressing) point, Brenda! It's sad that many judges see it is as being pro-resident, but really they are just being pro-bad resident. Sad that so many other good residents have to suffer because of a judge not wanting to evict the bad apple.

I wonder how many associations reach out to local judges in order to start a dialogue about this problem.

My property is located within 5 miles of a military base, so most of our NTV are due to military PCSing out of the state