Topic: Re:Pay up or pack up!

I was sent this by someone who would like to remain anonymous. This person is definitely not pulling any punches!! What do you think?

Update: This has been the most controversial form we have ever featured, with people absolutely loving it or hating it. So I have gotten permission and have shared it in our File Bank! You can download it here .

Wow! I think this certainly sends a message! :)

Hmmmm....I can't say I would ever send this out. A phone call, is that asking too much?

From what I understand, this is a last ditch effort type of situation. This person tries all other routes first and only does this when they don't work.

@Brent- I would certainly hope so... otherwise, I have a feeling why people might be leaving :) HA!

I think I'll stick with the standard court eviction. I'm not sure the attached form would even be legal in our state. One of our long term residents will be living in his car come Thanksgiving, and I'm glad the court is there to do the dirty work. :(

@Rose - I assumed they also sent out a formal eviction letter, but I can't say for sure.

LOVE IT & I would use it. As a manager of multiple "C" properties that offer 2nd chance leasing, we try the same old tactics first...but sometimes the harsh word that "you are about to be homeless" works to collect or at minimum start the conversation.

I think it's tacky and in poor taste. I realize that in some cases you're dealing with true deadbeats who have no intention of paying. Regardless, I prefer and always recommend to remain professional. There isn't anything outwardly unprofessional or crude about this notice, but adding the moving companies under the guise that you want to help is condescending.

If they were truly concerned about collection delinquent rent they should have included the office phone number and a person to contact. Clearly they are more focused on making a statement.

Since the eviction process, in my opinion, favors the delinquent Resident in terms of time it takes to process the eviction with court date, cost to property, and loss of revenue plus turnover costs, I can see how the Manager might find JOY in posting this notice on the tenant's door. I have always been at a loss to understand why it takes 4-6 weeks to get a court date, then another 10-14 days for the sheriff to show up all the while the Resident is living rent-free for two months.

In certain cases, when dealing with certain types of people, I think a notice of this nature would be warranted. I agree with Mindy that the eviction process does favor the delinquent resident which in the end costs the property owner more money.

I recall a situation that I faced one year near the holidays. A tenant told me that he could not pay his rent which was delinquent by two months because he would be sitting in line at midnight to purchase the new XBox 360 that was being released. I very politely told him that I hoped he could find a way to play his game system in his car because that was where he would be living. He bought his game system and we evicted him right before Christmas. This particular resident was a chronic late payee with a lengthy history of prior evictions being filed. He always paid up at the eleventh hour but in the end that game system meant more to him than a roof over his head. The only sympathy I felt was for his children who became homeless because of his selfish actions.

I'll agree that some folks just know how to work the system, but evictions happen for all sorts of reasons. It's humiliating enough for a resident to receive the court paperwork regarding the eviction. This is rubbing salt into the wound. Stay professional with issues like this. Plus, if it isn't being applied consistently, there could be some fair housing concerns. Perception, folks...perception.

I think that the landlord means business. Thats what people do not realize this is a business. No pay No stay No excuses.

You bring up a really interesting question, Kelle. For those that actively abuse our properties, such as working government loopholes so they can stay for free, trashing the apartment, or even stealing the fixtures, do you think they are humiliated to get an eviction notice?

I really have been this frustrated before and certainly understand repeateded notices...however you allowed them to live there in the first place and also I was taught to hold myself and company to higher standards than normal and when I see something like this it certainly would fend me off as a renter not knowing what type of letter would be sent for balcony violations or other everyday mishaps...just my opinion.

I find little joy when rent isn't paid. That being said, many tenants are professional as well in understanding the six weeks out court dates, the ten days of reprieve after they lose the judgment and the two to three day writ turnaround. I like it and I think that a broken contract doesn't deserve respect. We all have to admit, if it wasn't for the court dates, we would have them out on day 8 after the seven day notice.

I do, which is probably the catalyst for the trash and theft. I fear that a notice like that would provoke additional damages.

Update: This has been the most controversial form we have ever featured, with people absolutely loving it or hating it. So I have gotten permission and have shared it in our File Bank! You can download it here .

Does a community really need to put their contact info on a” hey pay up or pack up notice”? If you think for a second that your residents don't know your phone number or where the leasing office is then there something wrong with how you are providing the information to them at move in. If no one likes this notice then what are some other creative ways to collect the rent? I thought this was very bold to do and hope it works for them.

* was posted on the FB discussion...thought to share on here also.

I can relate to both sides of this debate. It is harsh, but isn't an eviction notice equally as harsh if not more so? We call, e-mail and pound on doors to collect and sometimes the only thing that works is the threat of eviction. This flyer is a very to the point but creative way to convey that message. If you don't want to use it in the trenches, it could serve as a humorous reminder for your leasing staff to collect delinquencies rather than a tool they use to collect.

I think an objective should be to remain classier than the evicted. And you can't honestly expect someone to take anything that seriously that has clipart on it. Come on now.

But I bet the property manager had a huge smile on her face when she was printing this out!

All correspondance to a Resident should contain the community's contact information. If, in court, the Resident produces this document and says, "I would have paid but I didn't know where to go to do so," then this paper can be used against the property's representative. Again, courts always favor the tenant, especially during the colder months.

Lol I had a tenant try that in court over an Urgent Urgent Urgent We need to speak to you call the office today flyer...they tryed to say they did not know where to contact so how could they pay...the judge laughed at them when they said this and asked " You do know where you live at right?" The tenant response was yes but and the judge responded with " Then you know where to pay your rent, at their rental office." I had to work really hard to keep the smile off my face. Side note this could have gone a diffrent way but luckly I was prepared by documenting everything including when they call durring the eviction process for a maintenance request, that small little thing can make or break an eviction hearing if the tenant insist they did not know who to call.

In this case I think the person judging from Brents earlier remarks was in the mind set this is it you don't return my calls so here we go you have been warned. The person probably could have put " Call the management office today".

Although it really says what most of us feel when a resident does not pay its important to remember that late fees and concession chargebacks play an important role in our "other income."

Michelle, when someone is evicted, do the late fees and concession chargebacks exceed the cost and effort of collections, if they are collectable at all?

I'm sure that before I sent this out I would have been at their door, sent them a note and called them... after that....!!! LOVE IT ;)
DJean SoCal Real Investments

Wow. Do we send this just to the dead beats, or the the family that lost their jobs and are sacrificing everything to try to keep their home? I for one hated this part of my job the most, and think this is rather heartless. Yeah, it may take some time, but we do have legal procedures that get the job done with a kinder hand than this.

The most "unprofessional" thing about the notice is the excessive use of !!! It gives the note a tone of hysteria. (And let's not even talk about the misplaced apostrophe.) Eliminate the "are you packing yet?" from the top and remove all the exclamation points, and you have a much sterner notice that really wouldn't be so bad in the final days of delinquency. Punctuation saves lives, you know.

When notices get posted on doors, any resident or non-resident passing by the door will be able to read it. Recently a manager told me "don't write something in an e-mail that you don't want printed on the front page of the New York Times," and I'd say something similar about notices that you post for all to see.

I think this the most cold-hearted thing I have ever seen. Especially when you consider those who must be evicted due to circumstances out of their control. Not every eviction is some jerk who just refuses to pay. I have to assume the person who made this form and thought it to be usable is rather young and inexperienced.

We work for management companies which employ stringent rules which cannot allow some of the flexibility a private owner could. Remember, we are ALL, ALL, just a few steps away from this scenario. Anything could happen in a person's life which could cause them to have to choose something else over paying rent.

Consider I was your resident, my parents just died leaving debt and heartache and then I get this notice. It's enough to take someone potentially suicidal over the edge. In fact, I'm pretty appalled this letter exists anywhere and I certainly hope its never been put to practice.

LOVE THIS! "Punctuation saves lives, you know."

@Genevieve - I've talked with the person who uses this and can assure you that every possible effort is made to contact the resident before this is used. I agree that this should never be used in circumstances where the person has simply fallen on hard times. In those circumstances, we should be empathetic to their situation and try to help them in any way we can. I have heard stories about on-site team members help find residents a job, which I think is unbelievably awesome. That said, I do believe that not everybody is full of such good intentions, and we've all seen first hand how some people will do everything they can to abuse the system. I find that these people not only hurt the community's bottom line, but they hurt the other residents in the community. If we have to take time and resources evicting those that are simply taking advantage, then our good residents don't get the full attention and other benefits they deserve. That's why I'm not necessarily against this type of response from a philosophical point of view for those that abuse our properties.

We have something similar. However, I don't use it specifically because it's not a legal notice. (I took over this particular property a in 7/10) and when we filed on a long time habitually late tenant she told me that she was not aware that she was in trouble because she didn't receive on of those "we're going to evict you" forms. I had to explain that those are not legal notices, etc etc.

Wonder how it would gone in court if that notice had been brought up as the property's standard notice and they tried to claim the tenant had not received appropriate notice.

A previous property I worked at used a similar flyer on bright red paper after repeated attempts to contact a person. We changed attorneys and our new attorney absolutely forbid us to use this because after a pay or quit is sent out, any attempt to collect a debt would fall under the collection laws "this is an attempt to collect a debt..." Not sure if it makes a difference, but this attorney actually did our pay or quits using his company letterhead so maybe he was just more sensitive.

We skip the flier and offer moving boxes.

I wouldn't send out that flier but we do something similar at the end of the process when the sheriff will be arriving within a week or two. We call or stop by the apartment and offer boxes. Boxes say: the eviction is really coming. I think it is a black eye on the property as well as a shame when folks belongings end up on the street so we try to make it very clear that it is time to move or pay before the sheriff arrives.

I am proud to say that we have avoided an on the street eviction for over 10 years. We've had lots of folks move out a few days or hours before the sheriff got there but I think that it is very important to make sure that the tenants understand they really can't just ignore what is coming.

What? Are we being punked by Multifamilyinsider.com? This is the worst eviction notice ever. There can't possibly be any logical reason for being so classless.

If I were a resident and saw this notice on another resident's door, I'd head straight to the leasing office and give my notice to vacate.

I would say that I can see your point of view, but I would be lying. I don't see how a form like that, regardless of the situation, conveys a professional message. It more appears to be making fun of a horrible situation. And even if this was the type of resident who is abusing the system, I would not take the time to give them moving info. I would follow normal eviction proceedings, standard & legal notices, physical eviction if necessary, and move on. So, I guess my final answer would be I would NEVER use a form that sent this message or looked like this. Its unprofessional and immature.

Peter Dean wrote:

We skip the flier and offer moving boxes.

I wouldn't send out that flier but we do something similar at the end of the process when the sheriff will be arriving within a week or two. We call or stop by the apartment and offer boxes. Boxes say: the eviction is really coming. I think it is a black eye on the property as well as a shame when folks belongings end up on the street so we try to make it very clear that it is time to move or pay before the sheriff arrives.

I am proud to say that we have avoided an on the street eviction for over 10 years. We've had lots of folks move out a few days or hours before the sheriff got there but I think that it is very important to make sure that the tenants understand they really can't just ignore what is coming.

I like this idea a lot. You're being helpful and attempting to allow everyone to part ways with some dignity. Plus, this could stop a potentially volatile situation turning into a huge scene on the property.

Seems to me that this is a notice handed out after the initial step in the eviction process "forcible detainer" is filed. At this point of the collections process you still have opportunity to collect the rent, legal fees and those late fees we all have a love hate relationship with.

This letter is not going to help you do that, ever heard of the old adage "you attract more bee's $$ with honey?" This time is the perfect storm if you will where you can blame your aggressive collecting efforts on the big bad court system, and you have to do your job but are willing to help them save the roof over their head by suggesting do whatever they can to pay the rent, borrow from family, ask for charity from their church ect... I have collected a lot of delinquent rent this way and saved thousands of dollars in turn over and vacancy cost. ;)

I have to believe that most people don't want to be evicted and move they just don't know they may have another option.

What? Are we being punked by Multifamilyinsider.com?

haha - Nope, not punked. This is a real notice that I've been told gets great results.

It's interesting because we have never gotten such a bipolar response to anything like this. On our Fan Page there were people saying they "Love it" and think it's great. Others say it is classless. The file has been downloaded 80 times already, which is amazing!

Either way, I always enjoy seeing people take a different angle to problems. It isn't for everybody, but someone is bound to take the idea, tweak it, and find some new great way to deal with evictions.

I came up with something very similar to this several years ago to clean up my delinquency. Several residents said the letter "scared them." My delinquency eventually dropped to 0.

The letter I had and this one are "ads" and are written like any brochure or flyer would be.

1. Get their attention so they'll read more.
2. Include details that appeal to their emotions.
3. Close them

I gave up on wordy letters and went to this format because this style gets the point across quickly.

Would you create a flyer or brochure to rent an apartment with nothing but words?

I always sent my "harsh" letter after the eviction was filed. I put in that their "estimated moving date" would be a specific date like Nov. 22, 2011. It included phone numbers for movers, utility department and request to turn in their keys when they were finished moving out. I also included a moving packet I got from USPS.

I wanted them to picture in their mind actually moving.

It worked very well.

This letter/flyer would be great if it were toned down a little. I can see it being effective on some properties, especially take-over my a new manager with serious delinquency.

Once they see you are serious and they will be moving if they don't pay, they will try harder.

Our Association (Delaware Apartment Association) has created the Apartment Angels charitable program which offers transitional housing for 6 months (free) to those in need thanks to our generous members. We have also created a flier to post on doors of those about to be locked out encouraging them to apply for the program. Of course we can't help everyone (and frankly nor should we). But, we also list our Associations website link www.daaonline.org/page/renter-resource-center.html referring them to our renter resource center which lists many agencies contact info that may be able to assist. The bottom line is you are still conducting business... Yet, with a soft touch and a caring heart.

Michelle - wholeheardely agree with what you do. When a resident falls behind I have a list of resources that I give them so they can contact for assistance. In many instances, as long as we have verification from the assisting agency that funds are forthcoming this will cancel further action.

What annoys me is that I see some that use the tactic of charitable contributions to pay their rent rather than get a job. But, I can't tell the charities how to spend their money and the rent needs to be paid, so I keep that opinion to myself, well.. other than venting it here. ;)

That's an interesting point Paige. I wouldn't use this notice myself, preferring to stick to the court process, but your comment makes me wonder if my residents consider leaving because of one of the notices I do use.

Our rent is due on the 1st and late after the 4th. On the 4th, I post a notice that says AVOID LATE FEES! PAY RENT TODAY! in bright red letters. It has embarrassed so many residents into paying rent on time that the owner asked me why I stopped collecting all of the late fees.

Ultimately, it's up to the resident to avoid getting notices like this. Sometimes it takes really drastic action to get their attention.

I have one resident who is frequently late, we filed a court eviction in October, but he went to court and convinced the judge to let him pay and stay. The judge permitted it because the resident promised to pay on time for at least the next three months. Then this month, no rent. He called on the 8th saying he'd try to have it the next week. Then nothing. Then he emailed yesterday so ask when he can come pay or when he has to go to court. We are past both of those options. He will be escorted out by the sheriff in a few days. It looks like the court has decided to give him extra time due to the holiday, but they wont tell us when.

I love it! Is it brass? Absolutely, and why shouldn't it be? My job as a Property Manager is to manage millions of dollars in someones real estate investement, and it is my job to insure I am collecting rent. Rent is what pays the bills and the salaries of those who work to care for the resident who lives and pays their rent. In the town where I live, 3 months to get someone out and I am sorry, but a judgement in todays times is not worth the paper the judge signed off on. In 2010 the property I managed closed out with an average occupancy of 97% and ZERO delinquency, while my comps averaged in the 80%. In the words of my old RVP, " rent collection don't start when they are late, it starts when you sign the lease", you have to be pro-active. :)

We have been using this letter for about 6 months. At first it seemed much more effective than it is now. Yes, this is a last ditch attempt, to the point that a lot of the doors this is posted on are already skips where the eviction has been filed and they are just taking time to get out. I like the idea of the "sales" flier idea. I too think people will read the photo style page more than the letter page. It seems we have to try everything now days to get folks to pay their rent. Sad.

Does anyone know if changing a unit's locks or placing a lock block on the door during the eviction process is legal? On a HUD financed property? The idea seems like it could eliminate charges being carried on through the process but also seems controversial. HELP!

Unless you have legal possession of the unit, you cannot change the locks. Period. Applies to all properties. Evictions are expensive, time consuming legal means of obtaining possession, but sometimes necessary when you have residents who will not move out of their own volition.

Check your state laws and call your local Magistrate or Eviction court. Find out what you can do under particular circumstances.

Are the utilities connected? You may have rights to protect your property if they are not.

What are your abandonment laws? This can could give you possession earlier than you thought.

Do some research. Ask other managers in the area, too.

love it

I would use it with a tenant I have right now that won't pay his rent or communicate.

If you can't get them to respond to a call, email or text....yes I say send it out.