Topic: Community service outside your property lines....

Just a thought here, and I am wondering if there are any property managers that do this.

In my area, the homeless population is rather significant and the resources for these individuals is stretched beyond its ability in terms of the limit on the food to feed them and the number of beds that are available on any given night. Many of the resources are operated as a community service by local, national, and international faith based groups.

Many of the shelters have significant maintenance issues, have trouble keeping food of any kind in the kitchen for more than a few days at a time, and do not take in enough clothing that the homeless are in need of.


Here is what I am thinking, and wanted to know if anyone has done anything like it:

Let's say I manage a property that 'adopts' a local shelter and does the following:

1) Provide a maintenance person on a single paid by property day per month to handle repairs with the following conditions:
* Work provided is not janitorial in nature; repairs only.
* Labor is provided only, parts and materials need to be supplied by the shelter.
* If the shelter has someone that is willing to learn how to do certain things, that person can assist and perhaps develop valuable job skills (potentially leading to maintenance employment somewhere with your technician's recommendation or assistance).
* The labor performed will have nothing to do with mold or asbestos mediation.
* The shelter understands that the property is only paying for the labor for one day per month. Any additional time needs to be arranged between the shelter and the technician, whether on a paid by shelter or volunteer basis.
2) Residents can collect food, clothing, bedding, toiletries, or other supplies with the help of the property on a regular basis appropriate for the season/climate. Fresh produce and meats for immediate use is always welcome.
3) If the property is affordable and has vacancies; the manager can do outreach marketing with the shelter to identify those that can not only meet your resident selection criteria; but can be successful and with the right support, not need the assistance for too long. The only issue with this is that the shelter may be operated by a faith based group and marketing in this way may be a fair housing issue; I am not sure how to avoid this (unless the shelter can document it in such a way as to consider themselves as either interfaith or nondenominational, or the if the shelters in your area are ONLY operated by faith based groups, they may be networked and share resources).


Any thoughts?

I'm not heartless, but I don't think this would be appropriate for a for-profit property management company.

Who takes the loss? The management company? The owners of the properties they manage? The residents who live, work, and pay to live in your community? Who pays out on the inevitable lawsuit claims?

We have a HUGE homeless population in my city (Portland.) Other cities hand out bus tickets to their mentally ill homeless residents and drug addicts because they want the issue out of their cities at our expense.

I cannot go downtown without being verbally assaulted by extremely aggressive street kids. I am fearful of the mentally ill men three times my size who follow me around muttering gibberish. They may not be dangerous this time, but when will they cross that line of desperation? I see these stories on the news every day.

People have to want to get sober and healthy, they have to want to work and a place to live; and there are resources in place for those who seek them.

My sympathies are with the law enforcement officers and medical personnel who attempt to protect citizens victimized by those who are so unwilling to help themselves that even their own families have turned them away.

I am a licensed real estate agent/experienced property manager in Ohio and I love this idea. If you can connect with your local social service agencies and forward your idea to your investor/building owner, you may achieve more than one objective by following through on at least one goal or two. Get permission for the owner's name to be used or for a management company's name to be used in connection with any marketing of the concept or project.

This kind of volunteering is popular around the world and makes a fantastic impression on any local community. Large corporations do this kind of thing all the time. They can write off time and supplies for tax reasons. Check for that, too. Also check your state gov website to see if any effort can be classified as a nonprofit. There are states in which hiring people categorized as disabled can reward the company which does so.

Filing for nonprofit status can be a key to a new future for the originator. I know experienced agents who have done this and I check back to see their progress. This is also a very popular idea right now and in the international community.

Sustaining a nonprofit can be challenging. Others would be willing to help with that in the professional business community. For them, donating time vs cash is an opportunity. BTWHabitat for Humanity offers courses online. Why not check on that organization for ideas and any assistance?

I work 365-24-7 and also volunteer for a number of causes which have large followings on social media. I have found that the most effective marketing is doing something that matters to other people. Few care about real estate or our work as agents. However, everyone wants to get in contact with people who act for the common good. This is all the focus online. I can attest to that personally.

I would consider choosing one or two objectives as a start and go from there. Creating larger awareness is key for creating a following and donors or contributors. This is the best way to achieve in any field. Work for the common good. Respect in the business community follows. This is a great idea. Your business connections will want to get involved and that alone increases referral business = profits.


Just a note: homeless people are not to be defined in disrespectful terms. Homeless military veterans and others are not all "mentally ill" nor are they subhuman. I personally find this kind of commentary disgusting. I am amazed when I see this assumption expressed online. This kind of assault on the homeless brings along negative karma to a company. Facts matter. Hatred does not.

As an agent who did a stint in social services, I know facts about homeless people. They are never aggressive. Good business means establishing good relationships with other people, regardless of our own lack of experience in work. After 40 years of work, I would know.

@ Rose; I respect your opinion, but let me clarify a few things here:

First of all, there is no proven relationship between homelessness and any form of disability. Yes there are some coincidences, but nobody should read any more into it than that. Here is an example from someone I know from my time in the military and he has my total respect and loyalty: He barely graduated high school (his family and teachers did him no favors) with a 1.9 GPA and after graduation, he was kicked out on his own and was homeless until he called a recruiter and asked for help. The Army did for him what his family and teachers couldn't/wouldn't/didn't and gave him a career that lasted more than 20 years, over half of which he was enlisted before he was recommended for officer school and retired a MAJOR with not ONE but TWO college degrees and a great pension. I challenge anyone to call him mentally ill to his face. He asked for help, got it, and seized the opportunity given to him. This deserves respect and not disgust.

The term disability is pretty broad; there are mental disabilities and physical disabilities; but a recovering addict is considered disabled under the law UNLESS the addict has relapsed back to the addictive behavior despite rehab treatments.

Now, I am not advocating directly marketing to those that need to use shelter services if you run a conventional market rate property that does not participate in the Housing Choice Voucher program (let me be specific here: I do not like the HCV program as it stands now. I do not like working with HCV recipients as prospective residents, because it is too much work for too little return. However, I do predict a time when participation in the program is not voluntary and we will not be able to deny an applicant solely on the basis of being the recipient of HCV assistance; many states have held that the HCV is an income and to deny them is a denial based on source of income which is a fair housing issue; it is only a matter of time that this is added as a protected class under federal fair housing as more and more states are setting precedent for it despite the best arguments by state apartment associations against the idea); I am only advocating marketing to the shelter in the event your property is operated as an affordable one and has no waiting list.

In the event that marketing is an option; a strong and clear resident selection plan must be crafted for use going forward that addresses, at a minimum:

1) Income: Income must be from any legal and verifiable source (employment, Social Security, SDI, SSDI, VA, retirement pension, insurance payout, family assistance, investments in bank, proceeds from the sale of a home and interest generated from those proceeds) that do not exceed your income limit for the situation at hand.
2) Rental history: No debt to other properties, no complaints from any prior landlord.
3) Criminal record: Any sentences for criminal charges must be completely satisfied (fines paid, not on formal or informal probation / parole / other conditional release), not required to be on GPS monitoring, not required to register as a sex offender; no criminal charges based on drug sale/manufacture (even if the charge is related to marijuana for medical use as it is not recognized at the federal level), violence, or weapons.

Are you asking Has any management company partnered with a local homeless shelter to provide services, manpower and opportunity to house some of the homeless residents? I think many property management companies help in one way or another. I know in my area, the United Way bridges the gap in many ways but you are right their dollars are stretched. However, the United Way partners with many local companies that "Care and Share" by providing repairs, tutoring Residents, providing caregivers so parents can attend classes and training sessions for becoming employed, and some companies raise the security deposit and first/last month's rent for those who prove to be a "better risk." I know you are thinking more along the lines of ongoing help. I am not sure any PM Company takes on that level of social involvement. I think a lot of properties have managers and other staff that align this type of involvement through their churches and other civic group affiliations. So many times, business interests may prevent this type of full on give back, mainly because they are profit-oriented and not a designated non-profit company. Of course, they may raise money and participate in other ways but it would always have to be on a voluntary basis.

This is a great idea.

I am on a variety of social media sites and I would encourage anyone with an interest to contact national and local agencies/organizations for input. This is one of the largest conversations in housing right now.

Whether being a nonprofit or a for profit organization works best depends on many factors and that has to be determined by the originator. Sometimes a nonprofit board may be helpful in making contributions of advice and contacts. This saves time and often, expense.

My only concern with any effort is long term sustainability. A hybrid of support from providing business services along with efforts from the nonprofit organizations in the local area is one consideration. I have seen various approaches used.

I am on Twitter and LinkedIn and have many contacts there in a variety of fields. If this can be helpful for this idea, please ask and I will try to help. This site will not allow me to post my email address. On Twitter, I am under gcpropertymanag and on LinkedIn I am under my own name (Mary Clark) along with Greater Cincinnati Property Management (Ken Perry Realty). If Johnny is on Twitter, just go to my followers and connect with them. I think LinkedIn requires permission for connecting to contacts. Just ask.

I hope this goes forward.

I'm sorry you feel this way MP, but in my city, there are just as many disrespectful homeless people as there are people who work for a living. I see it all the time. I know the news does tend to sensationalize things, but I see at least a few local stories every week about a homeless person assaulting someone. Last week a homeless veteran raped at least three women in the same area that another followed me. I actually hope this man is mentally ill, because I prefer to believe that he would not choose to behave in this way otherwise.

"Homeless" and "mentally ill" are not mutually exclusive, but there is a higher percentage of mentally ill who are homeless than housed. We really need more resources to help them.

What I find disgusting is when a homeless junkie who assaults a feeble old man and refuses to even apologize. It's clear where the hatred lies.
www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/20...o_swung_skatebo.html

I am also disgusted when I have to watch a homeless person urinate in front of me out in public, even if he is a veteran.

Then, this same homeless veteran (I assume he is a veteran based upon his clothes and hat) followed me around (this is the man who is 3 times my size and muttering gibberish the whole time.) The way that he would walk in circles around me while I waited for a train and aggressively lunge at me and shout was truly frightening. This man has followed me around twice in the last month.

I currently volunteer for a local non-profit that provides social services. My experience there shows me that it is not the volunteers who are disrespectful.

Normally, Rose; I would respect your opinion and experience.... However I am offended as a veteran when the connection is made between being a veteran, homeless, and mentally ill. These things are not mutually exclusive of one another, but can be the result of the military service. Remember that veterans wrote a blank check for any amount up to and including his own life in the interest of all the freedoms we hold dear.


When a veteran comes back in such a condition that he is no longer mentally healthy, addicted, or otherwise injured; it is OUR DUTY to him to make sure he gets the help he needs when he has fallen through the cracks.


At the same time, I do not condone a veteran for committing crimes and blaming the crimes to his military service. About 20 (?) years ago, California executed a guy that had been convicted of raping and murdering an 85 year old woman. In his many appeals; he tried to claim that he suffered from PTSD from service in Vietnam as a Marine! The woman was a great great aunt (my great grandmother's sister) of mine and the act was committed when I was 7 or 8 years old. He spent 25+ years incarcerated before being executed. When I read about these claims (after my military service), I was fuming mad and was willing to renounce my veteran status if it meant that I was to be counted with him. I was so upset that I wrote a letter that was read at the final hearing for his clemency request stating as much.

Okay, time to clarify as nobody actually answered the primary concern; and only offered opinions on whether or not doing something like this was a good idea.


Let's say I manage an affordable property (any of it's forms: LIHTC Section 42, BOND, RD, HUD Project based section 8, or I am able to accept HCV recipients). I find a homeless shelter that is in need of assistance in many forms and do so by doing the following:

1) Provide a maintenance tech (at my expense) for 1 day per month leaving it up to the tech to do more work either on a volunteer basis or paid by the shelter to perform:
*Repairs
*Health and Safety improvements
*Corrections to code violations
*Improvement projects
This would be for LABOR only, parts and materials would be the responsibility of the shelter, as would any labor time beyond the time I am paying for. If the shelter has someone as an employee or an individual actually using the shelter to learn tasks and assist; that would be welcomed and considered ideal.
2) Collect from residents or otherwise provide occasional donations of food, clothing, basic toiletries, or other necessities to assist in keeping their shelves full.
3) Seeing as though my property is being run as affordable and the shelter serves individuals that may qualify; if I have vacant units to fill, I should be able to market to those that use the shelter's services.

Let's take it a step further: let's say the shelter is run by a faith based organization. How do I avoid the appearance of a fair housing violation and marketing strictly to them? Is it as easy as showing all my marketing venues and asking the people operating the shelter to share my information with others in their network that may not be of the same faith?

Johnny, I would check with the city/county and get the non-profits that are operating in the area. Get the local church groups and get the local news in there. I believe that forces can be brought that would address the situation.

I would however ensure that the worker that would go there to work, would do it voluntarily and what happens if they get hurt while providing maintenance at the place? For that reason, I would go to the city and county and see what they have to offer. The Housing authority in the area may be able to bring something to the table. The city council/ the district manager all would be locked at the hip.

Then go to the local VFW and see what can be done from that end as well. Hope, I was able to throw a couple of brain storm ideas out there!

I appreciate your input Nate; but I was hoping to find out how to avoid the blowback from a possible fair housing issue if it appears that I am only working with this one source or the source appears to target a specific protected class.

I think you know the answer to your question. If your property receives federal funding, you must declare all your advertising sources. You must make it known how and what avenues you use to inform the public of your housing services. As a single property, you cannot devote paid labor services to only one entity and not at least give the impression that you are partial to that particular organization. For example, if you only market to homeless veteran at a Catholic-run shelter, it could be questioned as to being a FH violation. And you definitely should not be volunteering there on company time. If there is an injury, it would then become a workman's comp issue and this may be hard for the property management company.

This is why companies often have a non-profit off-shoot that handles donations, etc. with a Board of Directors overseeing projects and money distributions, etc. What you could do, if you feel strongly, is 1. volunteer on your own time at your own expense and/or 2. contact the social service agencies in the area and see how you might coordinate efforts for your Apartment Association and them.

Obviously, you can market to the agency, to homeless people on the street, to veterans groups (VFWs) other homeless shelters in the area, etc. But for the sake of not seemingly favoring this one group or organization, I would just market to all avenues. Informing the local housing authority, as Nate suggested, is also a great idea.

So - spread the information, target this special group,too, as well as all other avenues, and don't look back! It is such a slippery slope to pin all your marketing to only one place, group, or area.

I appreciate your input Mindy; let me clarify a couple of things here:

I would not market to shelters alone (faith based or otherwise) for an affordable propety. My marketing plans have included:
- Craigslist
- For Rent/ApartmentGuide/Pennysaver/local newspaper/rent.com/zillow/hotpads/etc. Both in print and online.
-Resident referrals
--Outreach marketing
- Homeless shelters
- Volunteers of America
- VFW/American Legion posts
- Masonic / Scottish Rite temples (I have several in my area that date back as far as 150 years!)
- Senior centers (if property is 55+ or 62+)
- DAV offices
- VA Medical Centers (I have one nearby)
- Veterans resource offices
- Many interfaith organizations that we have locally. I am lucky that I have a Rabbi that formerly served as State Chaplain (I am in Sacramento, CA) and she continues to serve on boards of many community organizations that are interfaith.


From a Fair Housing point of view, am I out of hot water with marketing? If I choose to provide support for these organizations (either as a property/group of properties or with resident help), how would I go about making sure it is fair?

I feel there is a disconnect between the abilities of the poverty stricken the assumptions we lay-out for them, so thank you very much for this conversation! There are programs out there that help different levels of homeless and grief stricken individuals. Yes, many are physically and mentally impaired and unable to do a day's work, BUT there are also many individuals inbetween that are striving to better their situation intrinsically, not just with hand-outs. Some of these individuals have more drive to provide a hard day's work than most of us that take daily empolyment forgranted. In Downtown Atlanta, the Georgia Works! Program is doing just that. I implore you to look at their website and see if you have local outreach organizations that are similar. Their candidates are DRUG-FREE, have TRANSPORTATION provided and are managed by case workers that require them to save and fix themselves entirely without hand-outs. Georgia Works! is working for Georgia.