Topic: Just found out one of my residents is being charged with 2nd degree murder.

Shannon Faith's Avatar Topic Author
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Just found out one of my residents is being charged with 2nd degree murder. Do I have any right to evict because of this? Does this violate our Drug/Crime Free Addendum if the crime didn't happen on my property?

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Posted 2 years 2 months ago
Last edit: by Lucie Muncaster.
Anonymous's Avatar
Anonymous
No because they have not been convicted
Posted 2 years 2 months ago
Lauree Hensel's Avatar
Lauree Hensel
Dustin Nelson the crime free addendum we use in AZ allows for eviction in this case. Call your attorney!
Posted 2 years 2 months ago
Kris Von's Avatar
Kris Von
10 years ago, I had a resident arrested on suspicion of child pornography. I evicted him due to criminal activity. He was found guilty and never came back. His poor mother asked me to hold any family photos from the apartment and I did. Everything else was unimportant to her. Definitely check with your attorney.
Posted 2 years 2 months ago
Lauree Hense's Avatar
Lauree Hense
l Its been in there since the inception of the addendum back in the early ‘90s. Unfortunately or fortunately, however you want to look at it, I have been successful in evicting many people for just being arrested. I am a huge proponent of the Crime Free Multihousing program in Phoenix and worked very closely with Connie Stein in getting the program implemented. I still recommend everyone contact their attorney before proceeding.
Posted 2 years 2 months ago
Anonymous's Avatar
Anonymous
Lauree Hensel The question lies there, were they arrested for committing the crime on the premises? Or off premises? Then evicted? Because last year HUD/Legislation introduced several new laws that pertains to criminal convictions. Covered quite heavily in Grace Hill if you’ve ever had to suffer through that.
Posted 2 years 2 months ago
Lauree Hensel's Avatar
Lauree Hensel
Dustin Nelson some on property and some off property and had no problem obtaining the eviction on any of them.
My advice on calling your attorney is crucial as they’re the ones who have to argue the case. I’ve been in the business 40years, I have done everything from leasing to Sr VP, I’m pretty good about staying on top of new rulings and legislation, I’m not a proponent of Grace Hill, sorry.
Posted 2 years 2 months ago
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Anonymous
Lauree Hensel no one is a proponent of Grace Hill.
Posted 2 years 2 months ago
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Anonymous
Lauree Hensel and while we are talking backgrounds, while I don’t have 40 years, I do have 20 and and am a President of Asset Operations for a multi-state firm and on the ownership side. I own communities. Pretty well versed in the laws as I am liable for the consequences. Scott Clark represents us. I’ll ask his legal aide Lila when I care enough to inquire. I’m not currently in this situation so it’s not a priority.
Posted 2 years 2 months ago
Jami McDonnell Coyle's Avatar
Jami McDonnell Coyle
And fair housing now protects you until convinced. You can not even look at charges
Posted 2 years 2 months ago
Anonymous's Avatar
Anonymous
Our crime free Addendum states we don't need to have a conviction to terminate a lease.
Posted 2 years 2 months ago
Jami McDonnell Coyle's Avatar
Jami McDonnell Coyle
Shannon Faith no matter what it says its still a violation of fair housing
Posted 2 years 2 months ago
Anonymous's Avatar
Anonymous
Shannon Faith If the incident did not occur on your property, you’re going to have a very hard time enforcing that. Many states have civil protections as they pertain to criminal. There are also federal protections.
Posted 2 years 2 months ago
Anonymous's Avatar
Anonymous
We're not income based. Tax credit only.
Posted 2 years 2 months ago
Anonymous's Avatar
Anonymous
Shannon Faith tax credit is a form of income based.
Posted 2 years 2 months ago
Anonymous's Avatar
Anonymous
Shannon Faith that will not hold up in court unless it is a crime committed on your property
Posted 2 years 2 months ago
Anonymous's Avatar
Anonymous
Sarah Trefz Watson I didn't know if you meant income based like we charge rent based on how much they make... we have set rents but they're income restricted, not income based.
Posted 2 years 2 months ago
Miles Scruggs's Avatar
Miles Scruggs
Dustin Nelson if it was an arrestable offense, did you deserve to be arrested? Is it fair that someone who is charged with child molestation can’t run a preschool while a conviction is being decided? No it isn’t “fair”, but guess what, it is almost universally accepted to remove them until it is sorted out.
People are removed all the time from various things when they are charged. Some are even removed from society in general and imprisoned until there is clarity. This is the system we have like it or not.
Posted 2 years 2 months ago
Miles Scruggs's Avatar
Miles Scruggs
Dustin Nelson Always. Doesn't mean you won't get treated differently, evicted, put in jail, removed from your job etc etc. If you are charged for theft doesn't mean you get to keep your job at a bank. If you are charged with murder doesn't mean you are allowed to be free. Charged has, and always will have, consequences, deserved or not.
Posted 2 years 2 months ago
Anonymous's Avatar
Anonymous
Miles Scruggs I just spoke with my attorney. We had a discussion this morning on an unrelated matter but I did bring up this question. He says that we could face civil penalty for attempting to evict somebody on that alone. No judge would hear it.
Posted 2 years 2 months ago
Miles Scruggs's Avatar
Miles Scruggs
Dustin Nelson Each state is going to have their own set of procedures for this. Many states like WA have those protections in place, but there are many jurisdictions that aren't as friendly. You seemed be implying with innocent until proven guilty means no legitimate negative impact can effect people with charges, and that clearly isn't the case. Very clearly in our society not only is that acceptable, but in some cases it is completely unacceptable to not act on the charges. Can you imagine the hell a school administration would go through if they allowed a teacher charged with child molestation back into school to teach when they posted bail? "**shrug** innocent until proven guilty so we had no choice except to allow him to keep teaching kindergarten, until we know for sure."
How each nuance plays out in each state specific to housing, freedom, employment etc is all going to be different, but what is certainly clear is that an overarching "Innocent until proven guilty isn't the guiding light in these cases." Sure you maybe innocent, but the very fact that you are charged means you inherently loose rights and freedoms, until the matter is closed.
Posted 2 years 2 months ago
Anonymous's Avatar
Anonymous
Shannon Faith I would be really careful even if your lease says so. Let's say you're in their place but you're innocent. Just because you were arrested and charged doesn't mean you're guilty. You have to let it play out in the court system.
Posted 2 years 2 months ago
Jill Styx Hall's Avatar
Jill Styx Hall
Don’t be alone in the office!!
Posted 2 years 2 months ago
Anonymous's Avatar
Anonymous
Jill Styx Hall I carry mace to work. This is a really rough property in a really bad area. I've been attacked three times, we've had an attempted kidnapping, domestic assaults, regular assaults, drug dealing, drug over doses, theft, property damage, e.t.c. Cops are always here. I have narcan kits in my desk.
Posted 2 years 2 months ago
Anonymous's Avatar
Anonymous
I forwarded this to our legal team to review. Normally, I'd agree with everyone... but our crime free Addendum is what is making me question this. I'm in Minnesota and this is a tax credit property. Not section 8. Our addendum states a single violation can be grounds for termination and that we don't need a conviction. If this violates any laws, my entire company will need to change this addendum... and it's no small company.
Posted 2 years 2 months ago
Anonymous's Avatar
Anonymous
I'll let you guys know what the legal team says... it would be great if we could evict as this person currently owes $4100 in unpaid rent.
Posted 2 years 2 months ago
Angel Rogers's Avatar
Angel Rogers
Shannon Faith can you evict for non payment? Is that amount all since Covid?
Posted 2 years 2 months ago
Leah Love Orsbon's Avatar
Leah Love Orsbon
Our leases are written by attorneys and says you can evict someone accused.
Posted 2 years 2 months ago
Anonymous's Avatar
Anonymous
All of our paperwork is carefully written by a legal team, id hope they'd know what they were taking about... but ya never know.
Posted 2 years 2 months ago
Desirée Colombo's Avatar
Desirée Colombo
It would be easier and cleaner to evict for the past due rent
Posted 2 years 2 months ago
Anonymous's Avatar
Anonymous
Desirée Colombo can't at the moment. We had court, she was supposed to pay by March 15th, she didn't so I scheduled the lock out with the sheriff... the next day covid hit and the sheriff said they weren't doing lock outs for the time being. She's been camped out, not paying, ever since.
Posted 2 years 2 months ago
Desirée Colombo's Avatar
Desirée Colombo
Shannon Faith I figured that was the case. Damn COVID. But on the bright side, you should be able to pick up where you left off once they resume evictions
Posted 2 years 2 months ago
Michelle Dittloff Croasmun's Avatar
Michelle Dittloff Croasmun
I would evict for nonpayment...hopefully you filed pre-covid so it will be first on docket when courts open and The Cares Act won’t cover him
Posted 2 years 2 months ago
Anonymous's Avatar
Anonymous
Michelle Dittloff Croasmun We had court, she was supposed to pay by March 15th, she didn't so I scheduled the lock out with the sheriff... the next day covid hit and the sheriff said they weren't doing lock outs for the time being. She's been camped out, not paying, ever since.
Posted 2 years 2 months ago
Connie Maali's Avatar
Connie Maali
She/He is innocent until proven guilty. State and local laws vary. And you have a crime free addendum. The only thing you can do is wait to hear back from your legal team.
Posted 2 years 2 months ago
Larissa Brown's Avatar
Larissa Brown
I had a bank robber one time and when he was arrested, his brother wanted access to his apartment to get some valuable art (brother was an artist). So we discussed that he would have to get power of attorney. Brother and bank robber got paperwork drafted up by defense attorney. Then artist turned the unit over to me on behalf of his brother. It worked out great...not sure if you can get anything similar going but it made things easier and process was fast...like a couple of days.
Posted 2 years 2 months ago
Jessica Fleener's Avatar
Jessica Fleener
Under Fair Housing that tenant is protected as long as they are paying.
Posted 2 years 2 months ago
Anonymous's Avatar
Anonymous
Jessica Fleener they're not paying, haven't paid since December. We had court, she was supposed to pay by March 15th, she didn't so I scheduled the lock out with the sheriff... the next day covid hit and the sheriff said they weren't doing lock outs for the time being. She's been camped out, not paying, ever since.
Posted 2 years 2 months ago
Jessica Fleener's Avatar
Jessica Fleener
Shannon Faith ugh do you have a timeline in when court is opening back up for your state/county? Ours reopened yesterday and people here have lost their minds
Posted 2 years 2 months ago
Kevin Forste's Avatar
Kevin Forste
You would have to wait until there convicted
Posted 2 years 2 months ago
Arlene Chasen Smadja's Avatar
Arlene Chasen Smadja
Kevin Forste wrong. She needs to read her lease to see what it says.
Posted 2 years 2 months ago
Kevin Forste's Avatar
Kevin Forste
Arlene Chasen Smadja being charged and convicted are 2 different things. We had a couple here that there house Burnt and killed 2 firefighters. They moved in when we found out there grow lights caused it they were charged for there deaths we had to wait for a conviction. With that being said I don’t what state you’re in you may have different rules
Posted 2 years 2 months ago
Arlene Chasen's Avatar
Arlene Chasen
Smadja Kevin Forste yes, being charged and convicted are two different things. Shannon is apparently in Minnesota, and the property is not subject to federal HUD laws (no HUD financing or housing assistance), so if Shannon’s lease says she can evict a resident who is charged with a crime, then it sounds like she can file for eviction of this resident without waiting for a conviction.
Posted 2 years 2 months ago
Anonymous's Avatar
Anonymous
Ok I spoke with our legal team and they said they would have to prove the crime was committed, which would mean getting cops to testify while in an open investigation, which is difficult. Technically we could evict for this even though she has not yet been convicted. But since we already went to court for non payment, the easiest route is just waiting for the stay at home order to be lifted and have the writ served.
Posted 2 years 2 months ago
Anonymous's Avatar
Anonymous
We don't need a conviction, we only need to prove a crime was committed. And we could also evict for her being a serious threat to other residents. But both would require getting cops to testify. Easiest route is just serving the writ.
Posted 2 years 2 months ago
Matt McNier's Avatar
Matt McNier
Facebook should not be consulted for your answer. Please reach out to your attorney.
Posted 2 years 2 months ago
Anonymous's Avatar
Anonymous
Matt McNier obviously I did... I stated that in several comments. I just wanted everyone's opinion.
Posted 2 years 2 months ago
Anonymous's Avatar
Anonymous
Moral of the story... contact legal. Luckily I knocked on her door today, no answer and notices still in front of her door. I opened the door... completely empty. So that solves that.
Posted 2 years 2 months ago
Anonymous's Avatar
Anonymous
Shannon Faith always nice when these things work themselves out
Posted 2 years 2 months ago
Arlene Chasen Smadja's Avatar
Arlene Chasen Smadja
Shannon Faith wow aren’t you lucky!????
Posted 2 years 2 months ago
Anonymous's Avatar
Anonymous
Totally lucked out... now if I can only collect the $5k she owes lol.
Posted 2 years 2 months ago
Anonymous's Avatar
Anonymous
I'm surprised that this is posted! Information should be kept confidential and that's the reason for a lease agreement!
Posted 2 years 2 months ago