Topic: Just found out one of my residents is being charged with 2nd degree murder.

Just found out one of my residents is being charged with 2nd degree murder. Do I have any right to evict because of this? Does this violate our Drug/Crime Free Addendum if the crime didn't happen on my property?

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No because they have not been convicted

Dustin Nelson the crime free addendum we use in AZ allows for eviction in this case. Call your attorney!

10 years ago, I had a resident arrested on suspicion of child pornography. I evicted him due to criminal activity. He was found guilty and never came back. His poor mother asked me to hold any family photos from the apartment and I did. Everything else was unimportant to her. Definitely check with your attorney.

l Its been in there since the inception of the addendum back in the early ‘90s. Unfortunately or fortunately, however you want to look at it, I have been successful in evicting many people for just being arrested. I am a huge proponent of the Crime Free Multihousing program in Phoenix and worked very closely with Connie Stein in getting the program implemented. I still recommend everyone contact their attorney before proceeding.

Lauree Hensel The question lies there, were they arrested for committing the crime on the premises? Or off premises? Then evicted? Because last year HUD/Legislation introduced several new laws that pertains to criminal convictions. Covered quite heavily in Grace Hill if you’ve ever had to suffer through that.

Dustin Nelson some on property and some off property and had no problem obtaining the eviction on any of them.
My advice on calling your attorney is crucial as they’re the ones who have to argue the case. I’ve been in the business 40years, I have done everything from leasing to Sr VP, I’m pretty good about staying on top of new rulings and legislation, I’m not a proponent of Grace Hill, sorry.

Lauree Hensel no one is a proponent of Grace Hill.

Lauree Hensel and while we are talking backgrounds, while I don’t have 40 years, I do have 20 and and am a President of Asset Operations for a multi-state firm and on the ownership side. I own communities. Pretty well versed in the laws as I am liable for the consequences. Scott Clark represents us. I’ll ask his legal aide Lila when I care enough to inquire. I’m not currently in this situation so it’s not a priority.

And fair housing now protects you until convinced. You can not even look at charges

Our crime free Addendum states we don't need to have a conviction to terminate a lease.

Shannon Faith no matter what it says its still a violation of fair housing

Shannon Faith If the incident did not occur on your property, you’re going to have a very hard time enforcing that. Many states have civil protections as they pertain to criminal. There are also federal protections.

We're not income based. Tax credit only.

Shannon Faith tax credit is a form of income based.

Shannon Faith that will not hold up in court unless it is a crime committed on your property

Sarah Trefz Watson I didn't know if you meant income based like we charge rent based on how much they make... we have set rents but they're income restricted, not income based.

Dustin Nelson if it was an arrestable offense, did you deserve to be arrested? Is it fair that someone who is charged with child molestation can’t run a preschool while a conviction is being decided? No it isn’t “fair”, but guess what, it is almost universally accepted to remove them until it is sorted out.
People are removed all the time from various things when they are charged. Some are even removed from society in general and imprisoned until there is clarity. This is the system we have like it or not.

Dustin Nelson Always. Doesn't mean you won't get treated differently, evicted, put in jail, removed from your job etc etc. If you are charged for theft doesn't mean you get to keep your job at a bank. If you are charged with murder doesn't mean you are allowed to be free. Charged has, and always will have, consequences, deserved or not.

Miles Scruggs I just spoke with my attorney. We had a discussion this morning on an unrelated matter but I did bring up this question. He says that we could face civil penalty for attempting to evict somebody on that alone. No judge would hear it.

Dustin Nelson Each state is going to have their own set of procedures for this. Many states like WA have those protections in place, but there are many jurisdictions that aren't as friendly. You seemed be implying with innocent until proven guilty means no legitimate negative impact can effect people with charges, and that clearly isn't the case. Very clearly in our society not only is that acceptable, but in some cases it is completely unacceptable to not act on the charges. Can you imagine the hell a school administration would go through if they allowed a teacher charged with child molestation back into school to teach when they posted bail? "**shrug** innocent until proven guilty so we had no choice except to allow him to keep teaching kindergarten, until we know for sure."
How each nuance plays out in each state specific to housing, freedom, employment etc is all going to be different, but what is certainly clear is that an overarching "Innocent until proven guilty isn't the guiding light in these cases." Sure you maybe innocent, but the very fact that you are charged means you inherently loose rights and freedoms, until the matter is closed.

Shannon Faith I would be really careful even if your lease says so. Let's say you're in their place but you're innocent. Just because you were arrested and charged doesn't mean you're guilty. You have to let it play out in the court system.

Don’t be alone in the office!!

Jill Styx Hall I carry mace to work. This is a really rough property in a really bad area. I've been attacked three times, we've had an attempted kidnapping, domestic assaults, regular assaults, drug dealing, drug over doses, theft, property damage, e.t.c. Cops are always here. I have narcan kits in my desk.

I forwarded this to our legal team to review. Normally, I'd agree with everyone... but our crime free Addendum is what is making me question this. I'm in Minnesota and this is a tax credit property. Not section 8. Our addendum states a single violation can be grounds for termination and that we don't need a conviction. If this violates any laws, my entire company will need to change this addendum... and it's no small company.

I'll let you guys know what the legal team says... it would be great if we could evict as this person currently owes $4100 in unpaid rent.

Shannon Faith can you evict for non payment? Is that amount all since Covid?

Our leases are written by attorneys and says you can evict someone accused.

All of our paperwork is carefully written by a legal team, id hope they'd know what they were taking about... but ya never know.

It would be easier and cleaner to evict for the past due rent

Desirée Colombo can't at the moment. We had court, she was supposed to pay by March 15th, she didn't so I scheduled the lock out with the sheriff... the next day covid hit and the sheriff said they weren't doing lock outs for the time being. She's been camped out, not paying, ever since.

Shannon Faith I figured that was the case. Damn COVID. But on the bright side, you should be able to pick up where you left off once they resume evictions

I would evict for nonpayment...hopefully you filed pre-covid so it will be first on docket when courts open and The Cares Act won’t cover him

Michelle Dittloff Croasmun We had court, she was supposed to pay by March 15th, she didn't so I scheduled the lock out with the sheriff... the next day covid hit and the sheriff said they weren't doing lock outs for the time being. She's been camped out, not paying, ever since.

She/He is innocent until proven guilty. State and local laws vary. And you have a crime free addendum. The only thing you can do is wait to hear back from your legal team.

I had a bank robber one time and when he was arrested, his brother wanted access to his apartment to get some valuable art (brother was an artist). So we discussed that he would have to get power of attorney. Brother and bank robber got paperwork drafted up by defense attorney. Then artist turned the unit over to me on behalf of his brother. It worked out great...not sure if you can get anything similar going but it made things easier and process was fast...like a couple of days.

Under Fair Housing that tenant is protected as long as they are paying.

Jessica Fleener they're not paying, haven't paid since December. We had court, she was supposed to pay by March 15th, she didn't so I scheduled the lock out with the sheriff... the next day covid hit and the sheriff said they weren't doing lock outs for the time being. She's been camped out, not paying, ever since.

Shannon Faith ugh do you have a timeline in when court is opening back up for your state/county? Ours reopened yesterday and people here have lost their minds

You would have to wait until there convicted

Kevin Forste wrong. She needs to read her lease to see what it says.

Arlene Chasen Smadja being charged and convicted are 2 different things. We had a couple here that there house Burnt and killed 2 firefighters. They moved in when we found out there grow lights caused it they were charged for there deaths we had to wait for a conviction. With that being said I don’t what state you’re in you may have different rules

Smadja Kevin Forste yes, being charged and convicted are two different things. Shannon is apparently in Minnesota, and the property is not subject to federal HUD laws (no HUD financing or housing assistance), so if Shannon’s lease says she can evict a resident who is charged with a crime, then it sounds like she can file for eviction of this resident without waiting for a conviction.

Ok I spoke with our legal team and they said they would have to prove the crime was committed, which would mean getting cops to testify while in an open investigation, which is difficult. Technically we could evict for this even though she has not yet been convicted. But since we already went to court for non payment, the easiest route is just waiting for the stay at home order to be lifted and have the writ served.

We don't need a conviction, we only need to prove a crime was committed. And we could also evict for her being a serious threat to other residents. But both would require getting cops to testify. Easiest route is just serving the writ.

Facebook should not be consulted for your answer. Please reach out to your attorney.

Matt McNier obviously I did... I stated that in several comments. I just wanted everyone's opinion.

Moral of the story... contact legal. Luckily I knocked on her door today, no answer and notices still in front of her door. I opened the door... completely empty. So that solves that.

Shannon Faith always nice when these things work themselves out

Shannon Faith wow aren’t you lucky!????

Totally lucked out... now if I can only collect the $5k she owes lol.

I'm surprised that this is posted! Information should be kept confidential and that's the reason for a lease agreement!