Topic: All-in-one washer/dryers

We do not have washers and dryers or hookups at our complex, and that's a common reason people choose not to live here. We checked into converting the kitchen pantry into a laundry room but the cost would be so much it would take many years to recoup the expense.

I'm wondering, since the building was not made with dishwashers, which we now have, would it be similarly possible to install a small ventless washer/dryer combo unit under the counter on the other side of the sink? Has anyone tried this? Do you know of any properties that have combo units? Even though the cycle time is extremely long, I think my residents would prefer this to the laundry room.

I, myself have a portable washer and dryer that hook up to the kitchen sink and vent out the window, it's not very aesthetic but it beats the hike to the laundry room (five floors, no elevator.)

It might be POSSIBLE, but you would potentially lose a lot of cabinet space in the translation. If you wanted to do this, I would consult with a kitchen designer to do a drawing and a mock up model.

Alternatively, if you have a CLOSET adjacent to any area that has a supply for power and supply and drainage for water, that can connect to a vent of some sort (either the range or the bathroom venting), you might have another option. I have lived in apartments that had a stackable washer/dryer in a closet in the bathroom...... On the other side of the wall was a bathroom sink and a GFI circuit.....

We have a 5'x8' pantry adjacent to the kitchen. We planned on converting a portion of that space to accommodate a washer and dryer, but the cost would be $3k per unit, we'd have to do 3 stacked units at a time, and all three would have to be vacant for two weeks. While we'd lose 24" of cupboard space if we installed a small combo unit under the counter, it's nowhere near the space would lose by converting the pantry. But it's the expense that prohibits that plan.

I can't believe I was ahead of the curve on this one. The property I manage has the same issue and this is what we are doing and I hope it will solve the issue of no WD in unit.

Thanks Mindy. Please let me know how it works out for you. Where is your property located?

Your washer/dryer dilemna is an old issue that can be resolved. My teams & I have installed tens of thousands of connections across the US. Pending the availability of space, limiting capacaties and the market for such an improvement, I am sure there is a way to make it happen. If you have enough units to take advantage of some economic scale, you can greatly drive down the cost; even in occupied units.

I would be interested in checking out the basics to see if I could suggest a patch to take. If you would like to review some details, please feel free to call me: 678-446-7570 Bill E. Nettles, pmr - Professional Multifamily Redevelopment, LLC

Best of luck!

I manage a property in Atlanta that has the ventless combo units. There are multiple issus with the ventless units. We have some located under countertops and some in closet locations. Either way, there are a lot of problems with broken handles (which cost $35 each), high/low limit switches burning out, circuit boards, pressure switch, fan motors, etc.

We out of 118 machines on site, we have anywhere from 5 to 12 service requests each week. They are the number one complaint on the property. The units have an 11 pound capacity, which is about 2 pairs of wet jeans. If the resident overloads the machine, it busts the drum and causes a water leak. They are very small capacity, however I would agree, they are better than not having any washer/dryer units in the apartments. Just be sure to budget for the repairs.

We currently have Ariston and Haier units. I would not recommend either of these units. Parts are impossible to find for the Haier and one company purchased all the Ariston parts and they hold you up on the cost. The handles were $7 each and when the new company purchase the supply, the handles were increased to $35 each.

We have been looking at the LG's. The snall units are a 15 lb capacity with good reviews and there is even a full size ventless unit that is 22 lb capacity. The small unit would fit under a countertop but the full size would not because it is 36" high.

I have been working with the ventless combo units for 5 years. If you would like any additional information, please feel free to call me 404-961-7130.

Thanks for all the info. The ones I am looking at are Splendide. They have a warehouse locally so hopefully parts would not be a huge problem.

www.splendide.com/

What about upgrading the laundry rooms with new coinmech machines, new lighting, etc? They have machines now take credit cards and txt you when your laundry is done!

That is true; but having a washer/dryer in the unit is much better. Especially if you have residents with limited mobility; or you choose to NOT have laundry access 24 hours.

If your units can support having a washer and dryer in the unit; it would justify a higher rent; especially if your comps do not offer them.

If it's going to take a year to recoup the cost of the upgrades, or its going to be a maintenance headache, go with the flow. You can always sell the fact that you aren't wasting square feet on in-suite units and also that you can do all of your laundry at once! Also having a nice laundry room with plenty of machines and nice lighting will help differentiate from properties with old, dimly lit basement laundry rooms.

Don't do it unless technology is much better now, we did this at one of our properties that had laundry rooms only and the machines were horrible, you can only put small loads in them and it would take numerous dry cycles to get the clothes dry and if you didn't wait 30 minutes before removing them you would burn you hands taking the clothes out and trying to fold or hang them, this created a whole new problem, wrinkled clothes from sitting all cramped up and still moist.

Most of our residents reverted back to using the laundry facilities within a few months of using the new combo washer dryers that we installed at a huge expense.

That was 6 years ago though, there might be something out there better now.

We just did a rehab on one of my properties where there were 1, 2, & 3 bedroom apartments with no connections. The price we wanted after the rehab could not really be justified without these. After doing some research our best option was to offer all in one washer/dryer units. It goes where the dishwasher would normally and then we give them a countertop dishwasher. There has been a miraculous improvement in leasing after this option was available! The company I am going to refer you to has great prices, and they even offer them in stainless or white. This was great as the kitchens on the property we just did have stainless packages. check out: www.fjsdist.com

I cant remember the guys name or find my emails from them... but, they are incredibly helpful!!!

Hope that helps.

We recently renovated our property in Sunnyvale, CA and installed the ventless ASKO washer dryer combo. They are a nightmare. They increased the work order workload by a full 25%. They were difficult to repair and you could only buy parts from one place in the US. Also terrible warranty service. They were and still are a major source of complaints from residents and were also much too small. Beware before you make the jump.

In my Toronto, Canada, market in-unit washer-dryers are virtually unknown. Everyone operates centralized laundry rooms or dispersed facilities throughout the building.

I am interested in what rental premium is generated from in-unit equipment. A washer-dryer pairing should generate $500 - $600 in revenue annually ($40-$50/month). Do you achieve that?

Absolutely...It isn't broken down that way, but yes... The value the customer percieves of the apartment is much more when this is offered, therefore getting more for the unit. A 3 bedroom with no washer/dryer doesn't do a family much good... but, with this addition we are able to meet their needs and get the desired $1,400 rent (which is rather pricey for Birmingham Alabama)

I have to agree with those that discourage all-in-one units. Appliance Warehouse of America has experimented with more than one brand of all-in-one equipment and had no luck thus far. For over a decade we have had much success with what we call "portable sets." In this case the washer and dryer are separate pieces of equipment that run off of regular 110 electrical. The dryer is ventless and the washer can be permanently connected to a water supply and drain or left on wheels and easily rolled to a kitchen sink while in use. The washer and dryer can set side by side or can be staked in a rack with the dryer on top. There are also other options that have come available in recent years than many communities are finding they can actually convert to at a much lower cost than converting to standard full-size equipment. If you would like more information, please feel free to contact me. Even if Appliance Warehouse does not have a satellite office in your area, there is still a very good chance we can help you find what you are looking for and help you figure out the most cost effective way to make it happen. Just like your residents situation, owning may not be the best option. Renting equipment and allowing someone else to deal with the potential headache of service can mean big savings. Best of luck to you Rose! :)

Sam Gainous
Assistant Regional Sales Manager
Appliance Warehouse of America, Inc.
Cell: 480-388-4004
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Stan,

I work for the largest in-unit washer/dryer rental company in the US. We do, in many cases, lease our equipment to communities and they in turn lease it back to their residents at a higher rate. We find that most communities easily lease in-unit washer/dryers to residents for $35-$45 monthly per set. This # can go higher depending on demand for the service and your submarket conditions. Hope you find this helpful.

Sam

Here is my thinking:

For residents with limited mobility; having laundry facilities at the very least near their home are critical. It is preferable to have them inside the unit for these people.

That said, if you have hook ups; that is okay; but if the resident provides their own washer and dryer (assuming it can fit in the space designated and utilities can connect); the resident would be responsible for damage and failures. Alternatively, if you were to provide them; you would be able to be sure that these were installed correctly and can address the problems when they do occur. It is also a plus if your comps do not offer them; and you can justify a slight increase in the rent ($25-$50) for that amenity.

I have not had any problems with the functionality of the stackable units; and I can adjust my load size to the needs of the machine without difficulty. If you have the ability to offer a centralized laundry room for larger items; like comforters I would do so.

When choosing equipment, make sure that the unit's warranty and EXTENDED WARRANTY offer onsite service. Make sure that the extended warranty is for at least 2 years after manufacturer's warranty expires and is renewable. Depending on the quantity involved; I would ask if there was a way for you to receive priority service (no more than a 48 hour turnaround before initial service tech is on site) when failures occur.

You make great points Johnny. Keep in mind that when leasing equipment over an extended period of time there is no need for an extended warranty or concern that equipment has not been installed correctly. Allowing a third party expert to manage the program for you reduces liability to almost zero and insures that all parts, replacement, and maintenance are included under a controlled annual expense. Turnaround time for repair/service by major equipment lease providers can even be less than 48 hours.

Thanks everyone for your input! It is greatly appreciated.

It sounds like while the combo units are a good option expense-wise, they are not up to par in quality.

I really like the portable set idea. That's what I currently use. This option would be the most cost effective too.

I paid just $200 for my small washing machine from Target.com. I was lucky to find the dryer on craigslist for $50, but I have seen new vented apartment-sized dryers $500-$700.

We have enough space to store a washer with wheels in the pantry that would roll out to hook up to the sink, but the placement of the dryer could be troublesome. We could put it in the corner of the dining room and vent it out the dining room window, but then it would be impossible to use that space for a table to eat at, and it's frequently too cold and rainy to keep the dining room window open.

Perhaps a vent-less dryer could be installed in the pantry on a rack above the storage space for the washer, although the vent-less versions are much more expensive and more frequently in need of repair. Plus, there are no electrical outlets in that room.

We have the Haier combo installed in about 100 units.
They use huge amounts of energy for the tiny load.
Load takes hours to complete.
They break down frequently and we have had numerous floods.

I'd never put them in again.

I would never recommend anything from Haier.... My last property provided mini refrigerators for all units (these were 400 sq foot studio type units with kitchenette..... we had 80 units, and 30 refrigerators failed within 6 months. It didn't help matters when the vendor was unable to get warranty support from the manufacturer.....STAY AWAY FROM HAIER!

unfortunately the technology is just not there yet with the ventless washers and driers. Apart from all of the technical malfunctions described here, at their best they will never get the clothes "dry enough" for American customers accustomed to a heat dry and fluff.
If you really want to add washers and driers there is no shortcut: you need to vent to fresh air and you have to make sure your drain can take a big load dumping all at once.
If you can't do this then you will just have to find a way to rent apartments that aren't perfect in a competitive market. If you find this challenging then welcome to the multifamily management business.

I am not a fan of the ventless systems, we have one property in Kansas that we offered those, but almost everyone has given it back to us.

Why not looking to turn your laundry room into a fun place? Maybe give away some free laundry use?

If you put washers in the units, remember that your water and sewer cost are going to go up.

Good to see you thinking out of the box for your property.

We installed them 6 years ago. The residents end up hating them. They take to long and never actually dry the clothing. The service tech, that services our LG machines actually told us that they are not suppose to completely dry the clothing??? They have been a waste of money. We are now upgrading our common area laundry.

The problem with NOT offering them is that if you have a prospect with limited mobility, that person runs the risk of not having a laundry facility that is convenient to their unit, or not entirely usable to them. An in unit washer and dryer is likely to be a 'make it or break it' deal; especially if your comps are offering them. Unless you offer 24 hour laundry access; that could present a problem to some that may not be practical to solve as well.

I know if I had a mobility issue, I would not even consider your property unless it had in unit washer/dryer (or hook ups); UNLESS the rent amount was significantly lower than others I had looked at.

So it sounds like the solution I use for myself might be the best option. The tricky part will be convincing the owner. My little washer that hooks up to the sink actually cleans better than the units in the laundry room. Since my apartment is on the fifth floor and my laundry room is on the second floor, my little dryer that vents out a window sure beats the four story hike with big heavy load!

Great idea! We tried making the laundry room more fun, putting in a buffet table, some comfortable chairs, games, books, magazines, and vending machines. All of our things were stolen, and residents now use the space to dump their heavy junk that they don't want to pay to take to the dump. Right now there is a broken big screen TV lying on the floor. This happens about twice a week and is extremely difficult for me to get up the stairs and out to the dump. All that is left is the vending machine. :(

If you do not have the ability to add washer/dryers to the units themselves; something else to add to the laundry facilities/fitness center/pool area would be WiFi access if you have not done so already. If you have a business center, it should be near a laundry facility.