Topic: Tenant complaining about noise & causing problems

I have a tenant that is causing me a lot of problems and I'm not sure how I should handle this. Just some quick background on my property..I have 40 units with most units having families with kids.

The people above him have a 2 year old daughter. He is constantly complaining about how loud she is. She is extremely small and I really don't think she is making that much noise. He said she constantly runs up and down the halls and it prevents him from sleeping. He works wacky hours and will be trying to sleep during the day. He called me after hours to complain about the noise and the person above him wasn't even home. He has also has cursed at several children for riding their bikes through the breeze way. He also has stopped people in the parking lot and told them where they can and cannot park. We do not have assigned parking. He thinks that if you don't live on that side you shouldn't park there. I have tenants that park on his side so they can see their cars from their windows.

I have spoke with him 3 separate times about these issues and I have sent him a letter stating that this is not allowed.

Do any of you have any ideas on how to handle this issue? Its getting to the point where I'm worried about the safety of the person upstairs, he goes up there when she is home alone with her daughter, and the safety of the cars outside.

I have experienced that situation one too many times to count. Basically, the best way to handle the situation is to inform the "complaining resident" that he needs to call 911. The Police respond to excessive noise complaints and if there is any legitimacy behind his complaints, the Police will sort everything out and issue noise disturbance citations when necessary.

While being a Property Manager, we wear too many hats at times, but Police enforcement of after hours noise complaints is not one of them. I have instructed Residents that I would be more than happy to look into the noise complaint during business hours, but after business hours, they must call 911.

As far as this Resident engaging any other Resident and creating havoc, I would give him a Lease Violation. All in all... isn't that what he is expecting, remedies to his complaints? If he is the creation of complaints, then he should be treated just the same.

You may want to call the Local Police Department as well and ask their advice on how they would handle this situation and what advice they may have for you. Each Department is different and they usually are more than willing to help.

Hope this helps!

I concur, with having him call the police - so that it is documented. I have had a complaining neighbor call me when the noise starts up - and I go immeidately visit, just so that I can "hear" exactly what he considers unacceptable.
If, the noise is not excessive, but a fact of normal apartment living. Offer the unhappy resident the option to trasnfer to an upstairs apartment immeidately and you waive the transfer fees (except for excessive wear and tear damage if any)or accept the intent to vacate effective at his lease end. If he chooses to move prior to lease expiration - he is still responsible for all costs associated with early termination.

Some residents will never be entirely happy with apartment style living. However, by checking out and expriencing for yourself what he calls "excessive" - and trust me, a 2 yr old could produce that kind of noise, if unsupervised.. . you have given him the respect every resident deserves. But it may come down to - he made a bad choice by not selecting an upstairs unit - due to his fluctuaing sleeping periods and the need for quiet. If he pays well, and isn't disruptive in any other ways. . . try to work with him. If he feels his lot in life is to point out to others around him that they are in the wrong. . .let him move somwhere else and wish him the best for the future!

Quick note: If you do instruct him to call the police, I would give him the number for the police, rather than 911. They probably won't consider a 2 year old running around an emergency...

I agree with Cary on this one. Unfortunately, you can't disregard complaints from someone just because they are an excessive complainer. In this business there is no such thing as "business hours" and if it is a concern for the resident it should be a concern to you as their property manager. Taking ten or fifteen minutes of your day to go and hear the problem should not be that out of the ordinary in this business. If you look at it as a "time issue" then you are probably wasting more time listening to the complaints, writing letters, and having no resolution then taking the few minutes after hours to investigate the issue. This way you have the knowledge to move forward.

Calling the police (agreed not 911) only resolves the issue if you have a positive relationship with your police department. In the end, it is not the residents fault that they live next to someone noisy it's yours.. you rented to that person and you should do everything that it takes to make it right. In regards to a two year old not making that much noise... Let me tell you I have a three year old and a five year old and depending on the day it can sound like I have 100 kids in my house... They pound their feet, they scream instead of talk, they cry at the top of their lungs, they slam toys on the ground, the run... they rarely walk... so I can see it being an issue. Transferring a resident may not be the most economical choice but you may want to have an open conversation with this gentleman and advise him of the negatives of living in a close proximity to others and perhaps living in an apartment community isn't the best solution for him. You may gain a vacancy but you'll gain his respect and probably a good reference from him and that could pay off in the long run.

I disagree with Chrissy. The two year old is a member of a protected class (familial status) and has the right to enjoy full use of her apartment home. Two year olds run, cry and scream. I feel it would be violating Fair Housing to transfer this gentlemen because he doesn't want to live underneath children. Just as it would be if he wanted to be transferred because he didn't want to live near someone of a different race or who has special needs.

I would even go one step further and 14-30 this gentlemen stating somthing to the effect of: TENANT shall not commit any act which shall interfere with or disrupt the livability of the premises or other tenants premises, adversely affect the health, safety, peaceful possession, quiet enjoyment or contractual rights of another tenant, interfere with the management of the premises or the duties of any employee of the LANDLORD, or have an adverse financial effect on the LANDLORD's property. And TENANT shall not be loud or use abusive language or create any disturbance on or about the premises. (That was taken right from our lease.)

This is not even close to being a fair housing issue and by transferring someone that WANTS to be transferred breaks no fair housing laws. Tenant/ Landlord law states EVERYONE has the right to quiet peaceful enjoyment of their homes it does not discriminate against anyone. If the two year old is making enough noise so that another resident cannot enjoy their home then the head of household or adult is in violation of their lease and in turn tenant/ landlord law.

Now turn the situation around and should the complaints have no justification and that they are not in turn breaking the lease by being a nuisance (from the investigation of the landlord) then it's always a suggestion to cut the ties with this individual which is not a violation of Fair Housing if both parties agree that living in close proximity to others is not suitable for him. Discriminating in regards to familial status means that you do not rent to people with families, or you purposely put families in a certain building, or you treat those with or without families differently or put rules and regulations on those families with children. Lets rationalize what you said for a second... If you have a group of 4 kids all under the age of 12 living in your community and they are being a nuisance to other residents but because they fall under a protected class (which all of us do fall under a protective class by the way including the bachelor who himself is a protected class) that you cannot demand them to follow the terms in their lease? Of course not.

This is not a fair housing issue... this is a "is there a noise issue or not" issue and to determine which path to take the manager needs to do some investigation to determine if the 2 year old is noisy or if the man just likes to complain. Just because the kid is 2 does not validate noisiness...

I see no Fair Housing issues here. Of course, you could always check with your company attorney to make sure. Families with children who make excessive noise and disrupt other residents ‘quiet enjoyment’ can be evicted without violating Fair Housing.

This is a case of a gentleman that probably should NOT be living in an apartment community. Transferring him may be the solution, but I suspect he will find other things to complain about!! If he continues to harass other residents, he is in violation of his lease. Documenting it as you did, with a letter to him, is the way to go. If, down the road, you need to evict him, you will need the documentation.

These are always tough situations. Kids make noise, what is excessive to me, may not be excessive to someone else. Good luck!!

Where could he be transferred to? If my understanding is correct, we cannot make any indication to the make up of households of other residents. So how could he be successfully transferred with out "steering" him ourselves? so to speak...

Are you saying that you will tell a leaseholder that their child may not run, cry, and scream? Or do you try to determine how much running, crying, and screaming is acceptable? What about a child just learning to walk? Is their guardian supposed to stop them when they pick up speed? How about a baby that has cholic? or a person with special needs?

Christa, the resident could be transferred to any top floor unit. But if he is a 'complainer' he will now hear and complain about the noise below him.

As for the cause of the noise (a child in this case), if it is determined to be excessive, a noise violation should be issued. Now the big question is WHO decides if it is excessive. To this particular resident it is excessive. To the Manager, it is normal apartment living kind of noise. Asking the resident to call the police~~non emergency number may help. Having a Police Officer tell him that the noise is normal would back up the office findings. Bottom line is that some folks should not live in apartments. And some folks are going to find things to complain about, no matter where they are.

To answer your question in regards to steering... Steering is a method that is an illegal method of segregating a community. By transferring this gentleman you are not breaking any laws, you would be considered "steering" if you requested he move into building b because he has no children instead of building c which you have vacancies in and he prefers to live in. Steering would also be if the woman with children wanted a second floor and you refused to rent to her because she has children and you don't rent to people with kids for second floor units. Which is illegal.

Fair Housing deals with discrimination and if he is the one requesting the transfer than no laws are being broken because it's a mutually agreed upon transfer.

I personally rarely transfer anyone due to the income loss of the apartment and that person who had the initial question should refer to their policies and procedures.

Keep in mind it is not you or me that define excessive noise it is the law that determines excessive. Most cities have a very detailed zoning law in regards to noise and if a resident is breaking that noise or a guest or household member then they are responsible.

I feel your pain... I am the resident manager for a property that serves seniors 55+, but at times I feel that I have a bunch of 4 year olds for residents.... A lot of my residents are prone to complain about the most minor of things at the drop of a hat (one of my former residents always started with me by saying " You BETTER...". WTH happened to 'can you' or 'will you'????) without even stopping to think that I may already KNOW about the problem and I am not working on a solution. Of course, I have to drop whatever it is I am doing to respond to the issue, even if it happens to be working on the solution. This delays results 100% of the time.

I have 'welcomed' residents to leave for being the source of numerous noise complaints (as well as a host of other lease violations). The important thing is to document these complaints/violations as they occur in writing. In my case, I use several premade 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and final warnings that I simply tweak with the specific wording I need. I also document the delivery of these notices in my One-Site software, and the paper resident file. Redundancy is a good thing in some cases. I may have to do this with another resident soon (I have already posted a 1st notice last week, and I suspect the situation has not improved). When I reach the final warning, I attach a 30 day notice to terminate tenancy. If the situation continues or gets worse; I post a last and final warning with a 3 day notice to terminate; even if only a week from the time the 30 day is posted has passed.
I have no patience or tolerance for residents who fail to respect me, my lease agreement, or their neighbors.

Problem with doing this is that I need the occupancy desperately, although I am now in the best position I have been in since my arrival (I arrived in October with 16 vacants and 13k in unpaid rent, I lost an additional 10 to eviction and other reasons and had 13 vacants in March with 3k in unpaid rent. I gained an additional 10 vacants since March, I now have 11 vacants, 2k in unpaid rent, and 3 working applications. I am approaching a single digit vacancy rate for the first time since I arrived nearly 6 months ago)

Good Job Johnny I haven't seen you on here in a while and was wondering how you were doing... I know you came into quite the mess... glad to see you are getting it under control! GO YOU!!

Thanks everyone for all your help and suggestions. I did go over there to hear the noise. It was just the normal apartment noise. I could hear walking and it was not something that I would consider excessive. I offered to let him transfer to a different unit and he said no that there will be noise there to since I have so many families and asked if there was a building that had no kids. I told him which units were vacant and he told me that he would just stay where he was and he'll just call the police every time they make any noise. I had someone turn in a notice today to move at the end of June because he is mean to her kids... :(

Thank you Gerry and Chrissy! I very much liked what you both had to say! I like to see different positions on testy issues. I hope I did not offend anyone by stirring the pot!

Keri, I am sorry to hear that you are losing a good resident. Maybe they will return in the future...

Keri, I am sorry you are losing a resident because of this 'gentleman'. I hope you documented the reason for her move out and sent the violation letter to Mr. Nasty!

Christa, No offense was taken on my part. This forum is for debate, discussion and learning. Anytime you have questions it is always a good idea to ask your supervisor and/or company attorney.

Johnny, nice job! Keep up the good work.

I didn't even have to write much out. She attached a 2 page letter about exactly why she was moving out. I did send him a letter about everything, but sadly he is still doing the same stuff...

Sure, The two year old seems to be violating half the conditions you just cited soooo....cite the kid!

The issue I find is if we move residents around trying to find an apartment they would be happy with, that never happens. I find the best result when a resident complains about a neighbor and I can not substantiate the complaint, I offer the resident an option to move, because an unhappy resident will make all your residents unhappy and you end up losing good residents, basically they are poision to any apartment community. We all like to be 100% occupied all the time, but reality is we need to address the issue at the root. No matter what apartment he moves to I guarentee he will not be happy, and if you start moving one person because he is unhappy you will have to move everyone that is unhappy. Your policy to transfer to another unit should be defined very clearly. A transfer will only be granted for change in household size or medical reason (verified by a doctor). The resident should have been shown the apartment before he moved in and accepted the apartment and the location at the time of move in. With apartments so close together, you are going to have daily noises and nothing can be done about that. Unfortunately apartment living is not for everyone and people who are moving from a house have a tough time making the transition. Hope this helps.

I use my parents as an example in this case; they had to walk away from a 3 bedroom house (they were underwater on the note and were likely to need to do so within a couple of years due to medical/mobility issues as the house was 2 stories) and into an apartment with an upstairs neighbor. The problem with being downstairs in this case is that you can hear the upstairs resident even walking above them. This is normal apartment noise and there is nothing you can really do about it; except BE the upstairs neighbor and use the shuffle method when walking. In my dad's case, due to mobility issues resulting in the amputation of a toe this year, this is not practical.

Hello, i am a newly property mgr in nyc. I have been on the job for four years. I have a two story unit located in brooklyn I recevied numerous of complaints of noises from my upstairs tenants for the fourth time, they were given extensive warnings. They pay their rent on time and not destroying property. This is an awkward process for me to do. I had saw the videos of there behavior, it is not good. They were doing things purposely. What should I do. start a court order for eviction because I do not want them to drive my property down ?

Theresa a BIG difference between walking noise and constant stomping running noise day and night even with young kids. This is unreasonable noise and unfair to tenants below. If children are doing this then that also shows neglect on the parents part and shouldn’t be tolerated. The bigger the child gets the heavier the stomping and running get also. It’s clearly a lease violation and harboring on noise harassment since the tenants above with the noisy kids have been warned and told to be mindful of the downstairs neighbors,full well knowing that it’s causing a nuisance and infringing on the below tenants right to peaceful enjoyment yet they still do it. Neighbors schedules and children shouldn’t be interrupting other neighbors schedules and home life. Sorry but at any age the constant running,pounding ,stomping by kids should not be tolerated.

It most certainly does break fair housing laws, unless you are going to transfer everyone that complains about the noise in your complex. For example, lets say you transfer her and then the person you move in that unit wants to transfer within a month or two because of the noise. You better be prepared to transfer that tenant as well and that could continue until no-one will live below this resident. You have already established that you agree, the person is making too much noise, because you transferred the tenant that complained about the noise. So for me......if you moved me in that unit, I would ask you why you think it is okay for me to live below someone that makes so much noise and not okay for that tenant you transferred? Was it because the person you transferred was someone you liked but you don't like how I look, so you are not going to transfer me? Was that your reason? You have to deal with the issue, not transfer the tenant reporting the issue.