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Fair Housing Does Have “Costs” And Should Be Part Of The Discussion

Fair Housing Does Have “Costs” And Should Be Part Of The Discussion

I have a one year old daughter, so when I think about where I want to live, one of the major elements is simply whether there are other families with young children in the area.  So imagine me touring an apartment community and asking if there are a lot of children in the community, or if any buildings are more family-oriented.  What type of response do you think I would get from a leasing consultant?  If they are trained properly, they will probably say some meaningless line about being a “diverse community” blah blah blah.  Did that help me in my apartment search?

The fact of the matter is that my family would likely be happier if we lived in close proximity to others in the same stage of life.  Having other families with children the same age would allow us to have play dates and keep our little ball of energy entertained throughout the day.  But while Fair Housing does a great job at reducing discrimination, it has a negative affect in situations like these, which makes it impossible for me to find a living situation that would fit my needs.

Another example comes from a recent blog, “Risk: It’s Everywhere!” where Nathan Borne discusses national origin and the potential discrimination risk by asking where someone is from.  He then asks why you might want to know that information to begin with.  Granted, knowing that someone is from Malaysia versus Nigeria may not make a difference, but knowing that they are simply from another country could make a huge difference in customer service.  Of all our residents, those coming from a different country would probably be fairly high on the list of those that need the most help with their move.  They may not know anything about the customs, how business is done, or the language itself.  But if we are not allowed to discuss this issue for fear of opening ourselves up to allegations of Fair Housing abuse, then we inevitably cannot provide that much needed customer service.

Yet another example discusses the use of custom emails to apartment prospects where there was a real fear of writing any custom text, as we could accidentally be seen as discriminatory based on different elements.  So instead, we are forced to use homogenous form responses that have no potential to properly respond to their specific needs.  Again, this provides horrible service opportunities and makes it difficult to help the prospect find the apartment that is perfect for them.

I am not here to say that Fair Housing is bad.  What I’m wanting to highlight is that Fair Housing has real costs on how we are able to help our customers, and can negatively affect their ultimate happiness level in their home.  I think it is important that HUD know that the majority of quality property management companies want to do the right thing.  They want to abide by the rules and make sure housing is equal and open to everyone.  So I would like to see HUD work with the industry and find ways to modify the system so that quality operators can provide a better living experience, while true cases of discrimination are handled justly.  This would cover not only the actual Fair Housing rules themselves, but the related fear that comes with them, as this fear is often the driving factor at restricting the service we can provide our residents.

Do you believe the fear of Fair Housing restricts apartment communities from providing the best service possible to our residents?

 
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I absolutely think Fair Housing fears restrict apartment communities from providing the best possible service. Fair Housing laws should be viewed as reasons to say "yes." In most cases, property managers use them as a reason to say no. I can't tell you how many times I've heard "We can't do that because of Fair Housing..." in situations where Fair Housing doesn't even apply.

This seems like a fairly black and white topic. Be nice to others and provide quality housing to everyone without regard to their differences. I realize it IS that simple while simultaneously being NOT that simple. There are a lot of grey areas and I think as a whole we try to avoid those situations by simply saying "no."

Advertising is an area that is specifically covered by the Fair Housing Act (FHA). Advertising rental property indicating preference of discrimination is illegal. Posting an ad stating "Second floor available - no children" is inappropriate for a number of reasons. The most obvious being advertising a preference to discriminate against adults with dependent children. What if your ad didn't say that, but had a picture of a 20-something person and nothing else? Does that "say" the same thing? Maybe?? I don't know, but it's one of those grey areas that results in blanket policies of not including people in any advertising. Nadeen Green recently opened my eyes to this scenario when she pointed out that it's okay to have humans in your ads. And what about children? Apparently that's acceptable and probably a better idea than just having adults. It shows that you accommodate adults with children that are protected under "Familial Status."

Sorry to be so long winded, but I totally agree with what you're saying. Better and continuing education on Fair Housing laws would go a long way in helping people understand that it's not illegal to be flexible with your rules in some circumstances. Of course, I am not an attorney, so I would encourage anyone who might be in doubt to contact...

I absolutely think Fair Housing fears restrict apartment communities from providing the best possible service. Fair Housing laws should be viewed as reasons to say "yes." In most cases, property managers use them as a reason to say no. I can't tell you how many times I've heard "We can't do that because of Fair Housing..." in situations where Fair Housing doesn't even apply.

This seems like a fairly black and white topic. Be nice to others and provide quality housing to everyone without regard to their differences. I realize it IS that simple while simultaneously being NOT that simple. There are a lot of grey areas and I think as a whole we try to avoid those situations by simply saying "no."

Advertising is an area that is specifically covered by the Fair Housing Act (FHA). Advertising rental property indicating preference of discrimination is illegal. Posting an ad stating "Second floor available - no children" is inappropriate for a number of reasons. The most obvious being advertising a preference to discriminate against adults with dependent children. What if your ad didn't say that, but had a picture of a 20-something person and nothing else? Does that "say" the same thing? Maybe?? I don't know, but it's one of those grey areas that results in blanket policies of not including people in any advertising. Nadeen Green recently opened my eyes to this scenario when she pointed out that it's okay to have humans in your ads. And what about children? Apparently that's acceptable and probably a better idea than just having adults. It shows that you accommodate adults with children that are protected under "Familial Status."

Sorry to be so long winded, but I totally agree with what you're saying. Better and continuing education on Fair Housing laws would go a long way in helping people understand that it's not illegal to be flexible with your rules in some circumstances. Of course, I am not an attorney, so I would encourage anyone who might be in doubt to contact their counsel prior to making a decision.

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  David Kotowski
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When someone walks through the Leasing Office door, glances from one desk to another and appears stressed or lost, we all know it is A Prospect and we all get excited for another chance to shine and illustrate our great expansive knowledge of the housing market. The leasing person sits across from A Prospect and goes through his/her drill. And this is where we separate the Stars from the road flares: the tour.

I completely understand what you are saying, Brent. Most parents will even say out loud that they want to live next to someone else who has kids. They will tell you that this will make them feel more comfortable because, as parents, they can identify with other parents. They will then ask, "Are there any apartments open where the neighbors have kids, too?" I have seen so many Leasing Professionals glaze over with that deer-in-the-headlights look. "Oh, no," they think to themselves, "Is this a Fair Housing Shop? Is my company shopping me?" They then go through the motions during the tour, trying to remember all the amenities and other points to make, trying to be conversational and charming at the same time. And they forget about actually leasing the apartment.

I agree that laws are there to protect everyone. However, maybe because I spent more time in the principal's office while in junior high during my rebellious uprising years, I always try to find a way to relay information - especially when I feel if I don't answer A Prospect's questions, then I am not helping him/her to make an informed decision. While I always answer the question according to Fair Housing, I also direct their attention on the tour so that they can visually experience the answer. By this, I mean: if someone wants to live where there are children, I tour them through the available apartment, of course, but the tour does not stop there. I want A Prospect to see the bicycles, the toys on this patio over there, I want to mention that our school district is highly rated and have earned...

When someone walks through the Leasing Office door, glances from one desk to another and appears stressed or lost, we all know it is A Prospect and we all get excited for another chance to shine and illustrate our great expansive knowledge of the housing market. The leasing person sits across from A Prospect and goes through his/her drill. And this is where we separate the Stars from the road flares: the tour.

I completely understand what you are saying, Brent. Most parents will even say out loud that they want to live next to someone else who has kids. They will tell you that this will make them feel more comfortable because, as parents, they can identify with other parents. They will then ask, "Are there any apartments open where the neighbors have kids, too?" I have seen so many Leasing Professionals glaze over with that deer-in-the-headlights look. "Oh, no," they think to themselves, "Is this a Fair Housing Shop? Is my company shopping me?" They then go through the motions during the tour, trying to remember all the amenities and other points to make, trying to be conversational and charming at the same time. And they forget about actually leasing the apartment.

I agree that laws are there to protect everyone. However, maybe because I spent more time in the principal's office while in junior high during my rebellious uprising years, I always try to find a way to relay information - especially when I feel if I don't answer A Prospect's questions, then I am not helping him/her to make an informed decision. While I always answer the question according to Fair Housing, I also direct their attention on the tour so that they can visually experience the answer. By this, I mean: if someone wants to live where there are children, I tour them through the available apartment, of course, but the tour does not stop there. I want A Prospect to see the bicycles, the toys on this patio over there, I want to mention that our school district is highly rated and have earned the distinction of being Blue Ribbon Schools, that the most esteemed preschool in the area is only two blocks away (and I see parents walking their little ones there, carrying backpacks and oh yes, they have a scheduled Open House next week!) I walk them around to see the playground (if that particular property has one.) I might even be persuaded to walk them past Garage #3 where the door is open to reveal this cute little Barbie battery-operated car.) I don't have to say there are families here, I show them without really saying anythng.

I can do this also, for people who own pets, by walking them past the Pet Waste Stations and Bark Park area (though I know this is not the same thing.) Seeing is believing. (I am always secretly hoping to catch someone actually cleaning the poop close by, but that has only happened once)

People have to be creative while demonstrating their product. And, they must be patient and very good at listening to what their prospects want to see and experience in their future homes. ;D It's all in the tour!

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  Mindy Sharp
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@David - I love your comment about Fair Housing creating reasons to say "no" versus saying "yes". That has the words "unintended consequences" written all over it!

@Mindy - Love your comments, but taking a devils advocate approach, couldn't customizing the tour open you up for liability? Couldn't you run into a situation where you have someone who thinks they were discriminated against because they weren't shown all the really great things at your community? Maybe you were trying to hide the great benefits of your community so they wouldn't live there?

Even if nobody ever feels that way, I guarantee there are communities who would be nervous about appearing that way, and would therefore never customize their tour, even though it was in the prospects best interest... In other words, if the law doesn't stop customer service, the fear will step in and finish the job.

  Brent Williams
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Customizing the tour is the most important part of being a leasing professional. However, because models are not used in any of my communities, the only thing that can be shown is the available apartment; therefore, by default the tour is always "customized" because the vacant shown will change as units are leased. For communities offering amenities such as Clubhouses, swimming pools, tennis courts, playgrounds, etc. the leasing professional should always be directing the tour past these amenities. I am just pointing out, that without saying a single word about families, for example, a leasing professional can get this across to the Prospect. What I see a lot happening, especially now that the weather is warm and certainly when the weather is cold, Prospects are taken on a tour on a golf cart or are told to follow in their own car. So many times, there is no way to personalize the tour and Prospects may be prompted to make comments based on what they see along a walking tour. It's just a simple visual exercise.

  Mindy Sharp
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Darling Brent…my first thought was “he is such a nice naïve young man” but I can do better than that.

Number one, we hear what you are saying…life would be easier and housing better if we could take each person’s situation and tailor our tour, our pitch, our plan to suit their needs. I assure you that everyone who has worked in this business, and especially those of us who teach FH see and hear your point.
However when you look at the big picture, the last thing that HUD/Housing Authorities is going to allow is individual treatment, based on that exact person’s ethnicity, family situation and more. Can you imagine the turmoil? Can you imagine what some leasing/management team members could do with that ability; there would be thousands more complaints filed about inequality, unfair treatment and more.
So I guess I am saying that fair housing is fair, and the poor old gov’t is doing the best that they can figure out how to manage this monstrosity called housing in America. And unfortunately I cannot see how they can do it differently or better. For sure there are some seemingly stupid rules. But coming from my (and I think Nadeen’s and others) perspective I think the smart thing for us to do is to continue dealing with what we have got, and trying to make it as clear and positive as we can.
We do get questions like “is there a playground?” and if so, we can answer yes. We also get from our older clientele “is there anywhere I can live away from kids?” and the answer is “only if you qualify for housing for those 55 and older.” Was life easier when we had separate sections for families and adults? Yes. Was it easier when we had adult only properties? Yes. Was it easier when we could answer straightforward questions like “Are there many kids here so mine will have playmates?” Yes. But would that be used to discriminate and perpetuate separateness? Yes. And that is what Fair Housing laws are in place to prevent.

I bet this was a much longer answer...

Darling Brent…my first thought was “he is such a nice naïve young man” but I can do better than that.

Number one, we hear what you are saying…life would be easier and housing better if we could take each person’s situation and tailor our tour, our pitch, our plan to suit their needs. I assure you that everyone who has worked in this business, and especially those of us who teach FH see and hear your point.
However when you look at the big picture, the last thing that HUD/Housing Authorities is going to allow is individual treatment, based on that exact person’s ethnicity, family situation and more. Can you imagine the turmoil? Can you imagine what some leasing/management team members could do with that ability; there would be thousands more complaints filed about inequality, unfair treatment and more.
So I guess I am saying that fair housing is fair, and the poor old gov’t is doing the best that they can figure out how to manage this monstrosity called housing in America. And unfortunately I cannot see how they can do it differently or better. For sure there are some seemingly stupid rules. But coming from my (and I think Nadeen’s and others) perspective I think the smart thing for us to do is to continue dealing with what we have got, and trying to make it as clear and positive as we can.
We do get questions like “is there a playground?” and if so, we can answer yes. We also get from our older clientele “is there anywhere I can live away from kids?” and the answer is “only if you qualify for housing for those 55 and older.” Was life easier when we had separate sections for families and adults? Yes. Was it easier when we had adult only properties? Yes. Was it easier when we could answer straightforward questions like “Are there many kids here so mine will have playmates?” Yes. But would that be used to discriminate and perpetuate separateness? Yes. And that is what Fair Housing laws are in place to prevent.

I bet this was a much longer answer and not as satisfactory as you would have liked. But as our minister said Sunday “it is what it is.”
Much love to you…and keep on stating your case…it makes great reading and conversation.

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  Anne Sadovsky
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If we reduce Fair Housing down to its basics, it is a law created in response to bad (i.e. bigoted people) people. It is no different than other laws resulting from the actions of bad people (such as those who burglarize houses). Most people in our industry are not bad people, but they must live with the consequences of what bad people do. Most of us would never dream of breaking into someone else's home to take money, jewelry, silver, electronics, but the bad people do that, so we must lock our doors, have alarm systems, arrange neighborhood watches, etc.

For every 100 genuine and sincere inquiries into issues regarding children or national original (the topics you blogged about) there are a few inquiries that are based on bigotry and misconception. (And even "genuine and sincere" dialogue can be impacted by prejudices that a person hides from himself.) When a prospect/applicant/resident hears "where are you from?" and is insulted, intimidated, or discouraged by that (even if the question is one based on interest or wanting to facilitate) there is no way for HUD or the "system" to easily discern the basis for the question. So prudence often dictates that we who teach fair housing suggest that these types of questions be avoided all together.

As a side note, I will point out that technically it is not against the law to discuss whether children are living at a community or to ask where someone comes from. But those actions can (and do) lead advocates to believe that there was discrimination behind those discussions, and it can be very challenging to persuade them otherwise. So...

...Is there a cost involved as you have said? Yes! Is there a fear of Fair Housing that sometimes gets in the way of customer service? Yes! Companies and individuals (remember, both can be liable for fair housing discrimination) have to decide their tolerance for risk v. potential fair housing costs and craft policies and procedures accordingly.

  Green Nadeen
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Thanks for the wonderful responses, Anne and Nadeen. And Anne, don’t worry – you can call me naive any time you want. I’ve found that being naïve allows me to work towards solutions that everybody else said couldn’t be done. MFI is a function of me being naïve! And in that vein, I always think there is a better way to do things. For example, I can’t imagine making a decision on Fair Housing, and then not assessing it after 10, 20 years to determine if it is working as intended. I’m pretty confident that it has vast unintended consequences that can be addressed with some thoughtful analysis. I don’t know what they would be, but I do think someone smarter than me can figure it out if the subject is open for discussion. So my job is to make sure we have those types of conversations!

Thanks again for the great feedback!

  Brent Williams
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I have had the worst of the Section 8 properties in the US and another where 80% of my residents are from other countries. For our legit people who walk in the door...if you genuinely care about what that person wants, you will find a way to answer their question. Many questions, are not about fair housing...they want to know will this community suit them. If you are genuine in finding them the best possible home, it shows. The "I can't answer that because of Fair Housing" is the worst possible answer. It is the easy way out. Training your team to be give a D@#!# about the person in front of them and know the solution to those questions. When your prosect becomes a resident they will thank you!

  Peggy C
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Anne, it is important to remember that 55+ communities are not limited to 55+ residents. It is only required that a least 1 household member in at least 80% of the units is 55+ so it is entirely possible to have children at these communities and would likely be familiar discrimination if we denied applicants where someone in the household was

  D Pinney
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I found it hard to keep from asking people where they were from. I speak several languages and have traveled all over the world. I am fascinated with cultures and learning as much as I can. I am sure that there have been many times where it could have been said that I was in violation of the Fair Housing laws based upon some of the topics I talked about. Maybe I was lucky, to not have been slammed, but if I noticed someone with an accent and English was a second language and they spoke German and then I started speaking German with them, they would beam and the world would open up. If they spoke certain African languages and found out that I could relate they opened up. I think when people see that you are open and understand them, or are trying to understand their needs they are more comfortable. That fear of being shopped holds people back and make them paranoid. I believe in people and I love the diversity in our world. Yes, I tell them that Fair Housing laws say this or that and if at any point they think that they are being steered to let me know. I will answer questions as best I can. Now there are those that are cringing by what I just wrote and maybe I am running on fools luck, but people can sense when you are all about them and their needs and want to do right about them. Then, there are those like the ones who are professionals in accidents and taking people to court as this is how they make their living. I have people tell me what they are looking for and show them what we have. I tell them everything we have available and that is projected as becoming available. I am all about trying to make people happy and get them what they want if we have it because happy tenants are long time residents in our community.

  Nate Thomas

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