Topic: Have a resident who says there is a leak under kitchen sink that smells. Maintenance thinks that it could be one of the kids peeing under the sink.

I have a serious question, and need opinions. have a resident who maintains there is a leak under kitchen sink that smells. 3 different maintenance people at different times have looked at it. she started putting doggie pads under and its yellow/orange colored. current maintenance even met with her today and ran everything again to try and replicate any leak, and it could not be done. He thinks that it could be one of the kids peeing under the sink, because nothing is leaking anywhere. he is the best maintenance I have had ever, so I don't think he would say if he didn't mean it. every pipe has been tightened, the basket has been fixed and still......how do you tell resident what you believe, without proof,(other than the smell), but without being able to see anything else wrong?

Dishwasher drain line is leaking. It's probably clogged with with food that's the smell

Not the dishwasher drain. have already fixed that before

Dishwasher, garbage disposal, or even water on the counter getting under the sink and running down the underside. Could even be leaking down between the backsplash and the counter.
Maintenace tech should know to discretely put masking tape in several places to be test indicators of if or where the leak is coming from.
Best not to let the tenant know they even exist and just have her call back when the doggie pads are wet/discolored.

UV light if you think it’s human made.

That will flash with any proteins based stains which a sink will produce lots.

I would turn the water off, remove the knob so it can’t be turned back on, put down a new puppy pad and tell them that a part is in order and may take a5-7 days for it to arrive. If the spot appears then you know.

On a kitchen sink? you would leave someone with no water in a kitchen sink for days?

As long as there are other sinks in the house for water this can be done. Especially if it is a leak and needed repairing it could take that many days anyways but maybe make it 48 hours max

It’s a trial to see if someone is urinating under the sink.

Not coming from the sink if it is colored… Pea trap been checked no discoloration then something is up. Put something down like a pee pad again and the take to a local college and have tested on a spectrometer and that will tell you everything you need to know and at a local college would probably be free.

Wrap the pipes and drains with the absorbent pad . Leave the doggie pad down . Next time she says the doggie pad is soiled then removed the wrapped pads and see if they are soiled also . Don’t mention to her that someone thinks there is a child peeing , that could be very offensive to someone . Just see what happens when you wrap all the pipes and drains .

That is a really good idea

If it's urine, it's a dead giveaway on smell and yes you need to let the resident know what you're smelling (but not that you think it's a child)/opinion is. Liquid itself TRAVELS when it comes to apartments so just checking the plumbing from the kitchen sink/dishwasher definitely ain't a thorough enough check. Sprinklers (if you got them) can leak and travel, plus with the antifreeze mixed in the line it could be possibly leaving the stain and bad odor.. Wish I could see it in person

Upstairs apartment, no sprinklers, we have fixed dishwasher line, change pea trap and baskets, checked disposal and everything. he can't replicate the leak to save his life!!!

Does the stain actually smell like urine? Pet/human

Yes it does

Some leaks are tough. A lot of times it’s hard to replicate because maintenance test for leaks assuming the resident is doing things the right way (not splashing water everywhere, not turning the faucet so far water hours down the sprayer hole)
Here’s what I would do:
1. Tighten everything
2. Fill the sink up with HOT water, almost to the top.
Let it sit at least 15 minutes then let it go full speed.
3. if that doesn’t leak run disposal with HOT water. Look for signs of water streaking on the disposal. Pay careful attention to the bottom side where the electrical connection are. Run it intermittently so the motor doesn’t trip the reset. Make sure d/w connection is tight.
4. Carefully examine and tighten sprayer. Squeeze the handle lots of times and make sure it stops quickly. Look for water streaks on the hose.
5. Carefully look inside cabinet to see if there’s a leak from above. Around the sink... if undercount make sure there’s no gaps. If surface mount make sure there’s no gaps .
6. Check faucet mounting. Check aerator for drips that can run under the baseplate.
7. Disassemble plumbing and make sure no nuts are cracked, no washers are missing.
8. Make sure there’s no condensation on supply lines. Make sure valves are FULLY open and tighten packing nuts if applicable.
Mystery leaks are really tough. The biggest thing to remember is heat expanded... a hairline crack that would never show up with a cold water test can leak like a sieve When hot.
Always give the residents the benefit of the doubt, most don’t pee under the sink. Some do though

All wonderful ideas but believe it or not, we have done all of these, and nothing!!!!

Lol that sucks. I had a couple with a leak around the toilet area once that I probably went to 20 times and never found a thing. They finally called corporate to complain about me. I went to apologize for my incompetence and was showing them, in the bathroom, what I had done up to that point when their young son walked right up and pissed in the corner.

Very good differential diagnosis. You really should be teaching maint classes at Vo tech to produce new crops of techs. This may be a little long. We had a leak everyso often. Damaged drywall in apt below. Did every test. But intermittent. So after all. We put me and maint guy on call when next leak. Got the call. Sure enough water coming down.
Went upstairs. Found problem. The residents mom visiting. Taking bath. She weighted ........ so when she sat in tub with water. The total weigh. There was ever slight separation on the plumbing drain ring causing leak.
This did not happen any other time everyone else took baths. Only when mom came every so often. Simple solution. More 2x4s to brace bath tub.

Leaks are by far the worst. Too many people don’t understand how hard an intermittent leak css as n be to pinpoint. As much as I hate major leaks at least they are easy to find

You could always use koolaid and pour it and water in the lines separate with a different color to see if you can detect a leak

Put a different color food coloring inside each water line and put the pee pad down and see if any of the colors used pop up. LOL don't use yellow if you suspect urine.

You probably need to personally inspect with your service manager.

You can baby proof the bottom kitchen cabinet doors and any other drawers to keep cat out and if the problem stops then the cats where doing it but if it continues then there may be a leak. My cat will pee inside tub if I leave bathroom door open. Some cats are like that and they can open doors and drawers.

To answer your question - you don’t. You never want to tell a tenant what you “think” is going on. You can either continue to check on it when she reports it - I would tell her to let it leak until maintenance can get there (with a bucket under it of course) or start replacing things (starting with the supply lines). It kinda sounds like the disposal or dishwasher though. Have those been tested? We had a dishwasher that had a few rusty spots on the top shelf and the water would be bright orange when it pumped out because of this. I’ve seen disposals so full of rust and gunk that it starts leaking and makes a nasty mess too.
If maintenance guys have been there numerous times and unable to find the issue, I would call an outside contractor. Uninvolved 3rd parties seem to solve these mysteries in a snap!

It's not disposal or dishwasher, we have replaced all baskets, pea traps, pipes, fixed dishwasher drain line, and it smells like urine not like nasty rotten water, nothing g is backed up, and he can't recreate the leak for anything. so yes we have tested and fixed everything that it could possibly be, and this maintenance has looked at it twice since he has been here and he is the best one I've ever had so......

And the disposal and dishwasher are brand new as we just went thru a renovation of entire property.

I’d call an outside contractor

We have had many water intrusions lately that are from a ‘y’ drain pipe that has cracked behind the walls; often times from apartments above but coming down all 3 floors and pooling at the ground level. They didn’t start happening until 2 years ago when we had an earthquake. Do you have moisture meter you can put on the back wall of the cabinet?

I’ve had 2nd & 3rd floors with the problem and the studs around where affected and the fact that is was Grey water added to the smell. Just a thought. Maybe a plumber would have a heat camera to see if they get an ‘iffy’ read behind the wall.

Have you gone there? Go with them and be truthful ..,we have reason to believe it is Xyz and how can we help…

It could potentially be something really simple like they are splashing water around, it's pooling around the base of the faucet, not getting dried and then simply slowly seeping through. That would explain why it's never replicated by maintenance because they aren't in there making a mess.

Rap the stack and see if it absorbs the moisture.

We has a resident that had a kureig coffee machine next to the sink. She would over fill and the water to leak under the sink into the cabinet. She was saying the same thing it smell bad looked dirty and something was leaking. We had MANY different techs check it out until one took a video and we figured out the issue

Start charging her for each visit when there are no visible issues and see how fast it stops!!!